Relevant Land query

CoJones

Hello All, I'm not really new, but my previous ID didn't work. Not been here since 2014, when you helped me with a POPLA case. Yes, I have read the stickies and searched for relevant posts, but found nothing quite like this.

This new case might revolve around the definition of "relevant land".

POFA says "(1)
In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or belowground level) other than—
(a)
a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning ofsection 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b)
a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c)
any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of avehicle is subject to statutory control.

In this case, the car park is owned by the council, but allocated to swimming pool. The pool holds the contract with ParkingWithEase Ltd and I am told that the pool collects the fees and PWE collects the fines.

My question is: is the council car park "relevant land" wrt POFA?

If not, their claim falls at the first hurdle.

Thanks in advance.

[Deleted User]

If car park owned by council but with lease or licence to pool company, which is a private co, which then used a private company to enforce? That would be caught by POFA

Fruitcake

A council is a traffic authority, so sub paragraph (b) applies in this case.
A car park is a parking place, the land is owned by the council, and it is therefore provided by said traffic authority.

Have a look at post 9 of this thread.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/70895919#Comment_70895919

CoJones

Thanks to Jonnersh and Fruitcake.

Very helpful.

I will keep the forum up to date with progress.

Current plan is to appeal to ParkingWithEase, but keep my powder dry wrt POFA until the appeal to Independent Appeal Process (IPC), which I know that the stickies have made clear is heavily loaded to the company's favour. But I guess I have to at least to try to go through that hoop.

CoJones

Johnersh, when you say "caught by POFA" do you mean that POFA is in my favour on this point?

It seems from Fruitcake's reply that that is what you meant, but just to be sure.

The_Deep

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Coupon-mad

But I guess I have to at least to try to go through that hoop.

Absolutely categorically NOT.

nigelbb

Fruitcake wrote: »

A council is a traffic authority, so sub paragraph (b) applies in this case.
A car park is a parking place, the land is owned by the council, and it is therefore provided by said traffic authority.

Is the swimming pool a council provided/operated facility or is it run by a private company? If the latter then the land is leased to them & it's the private company providing & controlling the parking places & thus it is relevant land with regard to POFA.

CoJones

I now have screen grabs are from the council website. The relevant carpark is on the list. Would have posted pics, but can't see an option for doing that.

Should I do a FOI request to confirm?

CoJones

nigelbb wrote: »

Is the swimming pool a council provided/operated facility or is it run by a private company? If the latter then the land is leased to them & it's the private company providing & controlling the parking places & thus it is relevant land with regard to POFA.

Thanks, Nigelbb.

It's unclear at the moment. The pool people say "
To be absolutely clear the whole site including car parks are still owned by ttttttt Council. There is an agreement between tttttt Council and xxxxxx Town Council for the running of the pool. xxxxxxx Town Council created us (yyyyyyy Pool C.I.C.) and we as VOLUNTEERS are responsible for running the whole site - the pool, all buildings (except kiosk), toilets, green, car parks, etc.

So is the "agreement" a lease? Does it need to be? I am still investigating.

Johno100

Was this a ticket on your vehicle or was it picked up by ANPR with you getting a notice through the post?