Employer takes my hours and gives them to someone else

John156iiii

Ho everyone, not sure if this is the correct section but couldn't find anything that would be better.

Long story short, my dad and uncles have worked for the Council for 11-12 years as cleaners at a high school. Working 2 hours in the morning and 4 in the afternoon. Their wages was around £1100 each.

Last week they were told that the school is making new arrangements and that they will no longer need them to work the 2 hours in the mornings. They were given a sheet of the new arrangements and what the school has done was they took their hours which was 6 hours a day (3x2hours) and they gave two other cleaners extra 5 hours each a day. So it wasnt because the school didnt have enough money because they actually added 4 hours a day to be worked but by someone else.

The problem my dad and uncles have is that they have always felt discriminated at the school by the head teacher and the estate manager even tho they have worked pretty much nonstop in those 11-12 years they had maybe 20 days off sick between them all.. And this just feels like it was done just to get the hours from them and give them to someone else, who in fact is a good friend of the estate manager.

They were first offered a redundancy payment of around £200 each but they all felt like that is extremely low considering the effect this will have on their wages and living circumstances obviously. So the school then told them £2100, which was a big jump from £200 so something didnt add up.. A friend of mine told me that the school has done something illegal taking hours from them and giving them to someone else and if they take the right steps they should be entitled to a lot more then £2100. Im not too clued up on this stuff to be honest, we will go to a solicitor and get some legal advice but i thought id ask here first if anyone knows what rights they've got? Thanks and sorry for any grammar mistakes, english isnt my first language. Thanks again.

MallyGirl

Probably best getting this moved to the Employment section by a Group mod.

If they are giving the work to someone else then the role is not redundant. That would be my starting point.

John156iiii

Just posted this thread to the Employment section. Didnt see it before only saw the Essential money sections. Admin can delete this thread. Thanks

Comms69

John156iiii wrote: »

Ho everyone, not sure if this is the correct section but couldn't find anything that would be better.

Long story short, my dad and uncles have worked for the Council for 11-12 years as cleaners at a high school. - Employed by the council - on a set hours contract - 30 hours per week? (please tell me theyre in a union!) Working 2 hours in the morning and 4 in the afternoon. Their wages was around £1100 each.

Last week they were told that the school is making new arrangements and that they will no longer need them to work the 2 hours in the mornings. - in writing? They were given a sheet of the new arrangements and what the school has done was they took their hours which was 6 hours a day (3x2hours) - why 3x 2 hrs? surely it's 2 x 2hrs? and they gave two other cleaners extra 5 hours each a day. So it wasnt because the school didnt have enough money because they actually added 4 hours a day to be worked but by someone else. - they should raise a grievence.

The problem my dad and uncles have is that they have always felt discriminated at the school by the head teacher and the estate manager even tho they have worked pretty much nonstop in those 11-12 years they had maybe 20 days off sick between them all.. - firstly what are the grounds for discrimination? 99% of discrimination is lawful, so what is it? And this just feels like it was done just to get the hours from them and give them to someone else, who in fact is a good friend of the estate manager. - irrelevant who the other people are

They were first offered a redundancy payment of around £200 each - no. they weren't. Sorry no council get redundancy wrong by that level. but they all felt like that is extremely low considering the effect this will have on their wages and living circumstances obviously. - this is all sorts of wrong. They should formally raise a grievance, tomorrow. So the school then told them £2100, which was a big jump from £200 so something didnt add up.. - they are not redundant. So this is all wrong. A friend of mine told me that the school has done something illegal taking hours from them and giving them to someone else and if they take the right steps they should be entitled to a lot more then £2100. - they are entitled to those hours back. There may be a punitive payment if this goes to tribunal Im not too clued up on this stuff to be honest, we will go to a solicitor and get some legal advice but i thought id ask here first if anyone knows what rights they've got? Thanks and sorry for any grammar mistakes, english isnt my first language. Thanks again.

if they are in a union, then all advice is free. free solicitor, free everything.


If they aren't... take this as a lesson and JOIN A UNION!

John156iiii

Thanks for the response, so what exactly are they giving them then? If its not redundancy payment then what is it called? With regards to the discrimination it is racial, to be honest the school has a strange system of 3 groups of 5 cleaners and each of these group is based on race. The British, Spanish and Czech. The estate manager always screws up with them, for example my uncle had a contract for 20 hours a week but he was working mornings from the beginning so for like 7 years the 2 hours he worked in the mornings were treated as overtime but whenever it was a holiday he only got paid for the 20 hours a week that he had in his contract even tho he worked 30 hours weekly for 7 years.

They dont actually feel like taking this further as they think they stand no chance against the school/Council but if they could get more then the £2100 they obviously would take further steps.

ohreally

John156iiii wrote: »

The problem my dad and uncles have is that they have always felt discriminated at the school by the head teacher and the estate manager

John156iiii wrote: »

With regards to the discrimination it is racial.

Given the on-going nature and the allegations, again are they in a trade union?

John156iiii

Sorry forgot to answer that, im pretty sure they're not unfortunately.

Smodlet

They definitely need legal advice. Some law firms offer free half hour consultations (try the yellow pages for that and make some calls if this information is not given) Another avenue might be the Citizens' Advice Bureau, another free legal advice included with an insurance policy if you or any of your relatives have it (it is an optional add-on which you pay for when you take out the policy); this could be car, house, contents, pet insurance, any kind.

I really don't know but is it possible they could join a union, pay their subs and obtain representation at this late stage? I know this is frowned upon for obvious reasons as it is like taking out insurance after your house has been robbed but perhaps someone else can advise whether it might be possible.

One thing I am reasonably sure of is that, if the roles are not redundant, neither are your relatives, not after 11 years in the job and redundancy pay is not at the discretion of the employer; there are laws about it.

Savvy_Sue

Smodlet wrote: »

I really don't know but is it possible they could join a union, pay their subs and obtain representation at this late stage? I know this is frowned upon for obvious reasons as it is like taking out insurance after your house has been robbed but perhaps someone else can advise whether it might be possible.

No, it's not.

Smodlet

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

No, it's not.

That was succinct.

Savvy_Sue

From my union's website:

When you’re covered
A member must have joined at least four weeks before the incident or occurrence that leads them to seek that assistance. Subscription payments must be up to date. You must continue to be a UNISON member while your case is ongoing.

It is important that you contact the union
 as soon as possible as legal rights often have time limits. For example, a claim for unfair dismissal must be lodged within three months (less one day) of the date of dismissal.

All legal support is granted at the discretion of the union’s national executive council.

I'm not going to look at any other unions, suffice to say that the example you gave of taking out insurance AFTER an adverse event is relevant. And Martin talks regularly about taking out travel insurance when you book, NOT just before you travel. It's the same scenario.

Mind you, I'm surprised it's as little as four weeks before they will help!