Appeal against unfair Eurocarparks NTK

horacewimp

Good evening, I'd be very grateful for some advice please.

I've received an NTK from the above company. My car was allegedly parked for 20 mins 23 seconds around midnight (23:53:30 - 00:13:53) in a deserted pub car park in Bristol.

I'm aware from some of your forum posts that the company need to show that they suffered some kind of loss. As the pub itself was closed, I'm not sure how they could have done, and certainly not the £85 they're demanding (reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days).

I also seem to remember reading that there may be a grace period of 20 mins (may not to apply to all companies), which if correct, she overstayed by just 23 seconds.

I was inclined to ignore it on the basis that no reasonable person would consider this fair or proportionate, but I'm wondering if I should submit an appeal. If so, any advice would be much appreciated. Also, do you think it would be worthwhile contacting the pub manager to get their views, or would the company and POPLA regard that as irrelevant.

Many thanks in advance

Fruitcake

You should edit your post to remove information about who did what, then read the sticky thread for NEWBIES before submitting the appeal template in blue you will find there.

Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people.

Most of what you have posted is irrelevant, inaccurate, or out of date. The driver should not have parked there, and that's the very reason why these companies exist.

Coupon-mad

the driver parked our car for 20 mins 23 seconds around midnight (23:53:30 - 00:13:53) in a deserted pub car park in Bristol. I was being dropped off by friends on my way back from Ireland and the driver drove down from Cheltenham to meet me in Tesco car park, but as that was about to close at midnight the driver parked around the corner in the pub car park and waited for me.

Why do people do this, we see this all the time!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76004782#Comment_76004782

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76004948#Comment_76004948

Drivers should never seek out private land/car parks.

At night, just use on-street bays out of hours, or even double yellows (as they are intended to be used - they are MEANT for loading and for passenger pick ups!).

So frustrating, why why why seek out a private car park at all, there's no need. I went to Bristol to visit a relative last month and there are places to park in the city after restricted hours.

horacewimp

Thank you for the advice received so far.

I have copied the template you supplied into the online appeals form. However, I have some questions: (1) do I leave the bit about the PDT machine in, even though no payment was made (for the reasons explained previously)? (2) do I leave the bit about grace period to be assumed as 20 mins, since the NTK says the car was parked for 20 mins 23 secs? (3) I think I read somewhere on this forum that photos of my reg number with the date/time printed below is not good enough. Should I therefore insist on the actual date-stamped photographs.

I don't know about the size or wording of the signs as the pub is 40 miles away, so I can't add anything there, although I can make out that there are some signs using google streetview.

If the mitigating circumstances are irrelevant and there's no longer a requirement for them to demonstrate loss, I assume my chances of success with the firm or with POPLA are slim, but grateful for advice on this.

I will separately try to contact the pub management but they don't have a local email address and are part of a big chain - but I'll keep trying. I will also write to my MP.

In answer to your question about why we parked in a private car park, we don't live in a big city and were completely unaware of the existence of this predatory ANPR-driven extortion racket. Obviously we'll be very wary in future and will spread the word.

Thanks in advance for your further guidance ...


Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

Le_Kirk

Just as it says in the NEWBIE thread, send the blue text template as is, without addition, modification or deletion. It is designed to prevent posters shooting themselves in the foot by inadvertently giving away the driver. Some PPCs will give in upon sight of the appeal. The second reason for the blue text appeal is to elicit a POPLA code.

Quentin

OP

Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving

You need to go through your posts and edit them to remove details of who was driving

The ppcs monitor this forum and can use posts in your thread against you in Court

horacewimp

Thanks Coupon Mad - please could you remove the quote from your post of 14/07 at 8:52pm, in which I gave details of who was driving. Many thanks!

KeithP

horacewimp wrote: »

Thanks Coupon Mad - please could you remove the quote from your post of 14/07 at 8:52pm, in which I gave details of who was driving. Many thanks!

But horacewimp, you didn't edit your opening post.

horacewimp

Thanks KeithP. I thought I had edited it but hadn't saved it properly. I think I've done it now.

Quentin

More editing needed. As previously posted you needed to Go through your posts and edit them to remove details of who was driving

Egbert_Nobacon

Google the pub chain to find the CEO.
Even though this branch is far away I’m sure you regularly use the more local premises (hint)

Send a polite but firm request for them to cancel.

BTW which pub chain - some are more helpful than others.