First time buyer: one bedroom in London

redefinr

I didn't mind renting - until it got completely out of control. 
The price in London is extremely high at the moment and i didn't go down at all during the pandemic.
I'm a single person and flat-sharing has never been my thing so I pretty much lived in studios. The price of a studio flat in London is now beyond realistic, I'd say you need at least £900PCM (and it wouldn't even big a decent size). The place I bought rent for £1150-£1250 PCM.
What's the point to pay that much for so little? My mortgage is not as expensive and to be honest in 20 years the flat will be mine. I lived in London for 12+ years and what do I have after all this time renting? Nothing. 
I don't need to worry anymore about eviction notes, rent going up etc etc. 
And with a bit of luck the place can go up in value with the years...

Crashy_Time

redefinr said:

I didn't mind renting - until it got completely out of control. 
The price in London is extremely high at the moment and i didn't go down at all during the pandemic.
I'm a single person and flat-sharing has never been my thing so I pretty much lived in studios. The price of a studio flat in London is now beyond realistic, I'd say you need at least £900PCM (and it wouldn't even big a decent size). The place I bought rent for £1150-£1250 PCM.
What's the point to pay that much for so little? My mortgage is not as expensive and to be honest in 20 years the flat will be mine. I lived in London for 12+ years and what do I have after all this time renting? Nothing. 
I don't need to worry anymore about eviction notes, rent going up etc etc. 
And with a bit of luck the place can go up in value with the years...

Your biggest worries will be not liking the area and struggling to sell, falling house prices putting you into negative equity, and rents in London falling as mortgage rates get pushed up by "inflation" that doesn`t feed into wages, or stress in the credit markets. 

Crashy_Time

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

The clampdown on Mum and Dad money from Nationwide and others is sure to have an impact on these expensive boxes that you are looking to buy?

Unless grandma or grandpa died from COVID. Sad but true.

Not sure what relevance that has to bank lending changes? The death rate hasn`t spiked in any meaningful way, and even if it did how does that affect a younger person needing to be in central London in a sky box, or more to the point someone hoping to sell an expensive sky box for half a mil or similar daft price? 

You were talking about help from BOMAD. If you have an inhertance then you don't need the same amount of bank lending.

I think it's pretty obvious how an inhertiance helps.

I do agree with you that London has a particular issue at the moment (which may go away when if get a vaccine).

Yes, but people have always been getting inheritance, why is it suddenly a game changer? Why did they introduce HTB if people are so flush with cash? - Answer - because most people are not flush with cash! And even less will be now that we are in a health/economic state of emergency. The game changer is that it is now harder for mum and dad to sell granny`s house in the Midlands and give little Johnny or Jenny money to throw at sky boxes in London. Interesting times indeed.

It's changed because the state killed quite a few people in nursing homes recently.

see graph for excess deaths here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53592881

I am not saying everyone is flush with cash (only the genuine buyers matter), but its a factor that counters your bnking restriction for BOMAD for some buyers.

It doesn't matter about most people.

What matters is whether demand exceeds supply.

I've already posted the nationwide figures for July so no need to post them again, but as usual we are silll waiting for the long awaited crash.

The problem for most ordinary people wanting to buy a home is will it come before they've paid so much in rent that the gamble of waiting hasn't paid off.

How long do you suggest people wait? 6 months? 12 months?

What if we get a vaccine and they are vaccinated in 9 months time, go ahead then?

How long have you been waiting, since 2001?

Did it change your plans to start a family or involve you in massive IVF costs because you left it too late?

How many examples do you have where waiting to buy has paid off over say the last 2 decades?

As I say, I think you may have gone past the point where ANY suggestion of ANYTHING other than getting mortgaged up for the next 25-30 years will do? Of course you bought in the 90`s before the bubble so you are basically advising people to do what you didn`t do i.e take out ten times their income in debt for basic accommodation.

You need to explain why 60 years of renting is better.
btw - mortgages get smaller over time 
actually the property I bought in 1991 went down until 1996 (if you are going to stalk personal details you need to be accurate). It wasn’t a big issue for the majority who don’t monitor the paper value and get on with a happy stable family life.
who said 10 times income?
tell us why 60-70 years renting is better.

The property market of 1991 has no bearing at all on someone committing to large mortgage debt at the present moment (worst time in a long time, but luckily for many the banks won`t let them make this commitment any more) I find your notion that being in mortgage debt somehow creates "happy stable family life" to be frankly bizarre, like some sort of mortgage ad, and offensive to the many generations who grew up well in rented and council accommodation, and your frequent rants about IVF are strange as well, I`m sure all the council house single mum`s have IVF treatment and mortgage debt as their highest priorities? Why not just admit that you are a VI, you want your favourite/biggest asset to stay high and  why not just acknowledge that when you bought is nothing like someone trying to "get on the ladder" today?

My home is not my favourite or biggest asset although it is a lovely and spacious place to live in recent circs. My pension is the biggest and financially the most important as I will be living OFF that as opposed to living IN the house. Hopefully the difference is clear - the pension is an asset whereas the home is not viewed as one. The house value doesn’t matter although I appreciate some struggle with that concept or perhaps cannot conceive of being in that position?

buying a house and building a pension has worked very well for me.
can you tell me why renting would have worked better? And how long I should have rented for?
to me 22 years mortgage with no CGT seems far better than 70 years rent
can you tell us your ideal proposal? Without the benefit of hindsight of course.

Apologies for the delay - down to being generally happy and unobsessed (not exactly effective ramping :-)

The point being made was that your individual circumstances don`t have any bearing on someone buying a massively overpriced flat in London during the worst economic crisis in living memory, buying in the early 90`s has no relevance to buying in todays bubble (luckily for many people the banks are putting the brakes on their desire to "get on the ladder", meaning that buyers from the early 90`s can expect to sell for less than they may have hoped to?)

hazyjo

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

The clampdown on Mum and Dad money from Nationwide and others is sure to have an impact on these expensive boxes that you are looking to buy?

Unless grandma or grandpa died from COVID. Sad but true.

Not sure what relevance that has to bank lending changes? The death rate hasn`t spiked in any meaningful way, and even if it did how does that affect a younger person needing to be in central London in a sky box, or more to the point someone hoping to sell an expensive sky box for half a mil or similar daft price? 

You were talking about help from BOMAD. If you have an inhertance then you don't need the same amount of bank lending.

I think it's pretty obvious how an inhertiance helps.

I do agree with you that London has a particular issue at the moment (which may go away when if get a vaccine).

Yes, but people have always been getting inheritance, why is it suddenly a game changer? Why did they introduce HTB if people are so flush with cash? - Answer - because most people are not flush with cash! And even less will be now that we are in a health/economic state of emergency. The game changer is that it is now harder for mum and dad to sell granny`s house in the Midlands and give little Johnny or Jenny money to throw at sky boxes in London. Interesting times indeed.

It's changed because the state killed quite a few people in nursing homes recently.

see graph for excess deaths here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53592881

I am not saying everyone is flush with cash (only the genuine buyers matter), but its a factor that counters your bnking restriction for BOMAD for some buyers.

It doesn't matter about most people.

What matters is whether demand exceeds supply.

I've already posted the nationwide figures for July so no need to post them again, but as usual we are silll waiting for the long awaited crash.

The problem for most ordinary people wanting to buy a home is will it come before they've paid so much in rent that the gamble of waiting hasn't paid off.

How long do you suggest people wait? 6 months? 12 months?

What if we get a vaccine and they are vaccinated in 9 months time, go ahead then?

How long have you been waiting, since 2001?

Did it change your plans to start a family or involve you in massive IVF costs because you left it too late?

How many examples do you have where waiting to buy has paid off over say the last 2 decades?

As I say, I think you may have gone past the point where ANY suggestion of ANYTHING other than getting mortgaged up for the next 25-30 years will do? Of course you bought in the 90`s before the bubble so you are basically advising people to do what you didn`t do i.e take out ten times their income in debt for basic accommodation.

You need to explain why 60 years of renting is better.
btw - mortgages get smaller over time 
actually the property I bought in 1991 went down until 1996 (if you are going to stalk personal details you need to be accurate). It wasn’t a big issue for the majority who don’t monitor the paper value and get on with a happy stable family life.
who said 10 times income?
tell us why 60-70 years renting is better.

The property market of 1991 has no bearing at all on someone committing to large mortgage debt at the present moment (worst time in a long time, but luckily for many the banks won`t let them make this commitment any more) I find your notion that being in mortgage debt somehow creates "happy stable family life" to be frankly bizarre, like some sort of mortgage ad, and offensive to the many generations who grew up well in rented and council accommodation, and your frequent rants about IVF are strange as well, I`m sure all the council house single mum`s have IVF treatment and mortgage debt as their highest priorities? Why not just admit that you are a VI, you want your favourite/biggest asset to stay high and  why not just acknowledge that when you bought is nothing like someone trying to "get on the ladder" today?

My home is not my favourite or biggest asset although it is a lovely and spacious place to live in recent circs. My pension is the biggest and financially the most important as I will be living OFF that as opposed to living IN the house. Hopefully the difference is clear - the pension is an asset whereas the home is not viewed as one. The house value doesn’t matter although I appreciate some struggle with that concept or perhaps cannot conceive of being in that position?

buying a house and building a pension has worked very well for me.
can you tell me why renting would have worked better? And how long I should have rented for?
to me 22 years mortgage with no CGT seems far better than 70 years rent
can you tell us your ideal proposal? Without the benefit of hindsight of course.

Apologies for the delay - down to being generally happy and unobsessed (not exactly effective ramping :-)

...meaning that buyers from the early 90`s can expect to sell for less than they may have hoped to?

I don't think buyers from the early '90s will have much to worry about now if prices drop lol.

jimbog

They would have to take a drop of over 300%

Crashy_Time

hazyjo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

The clampdown on Mum and Dad money from Nationwide and others is sure to have an impact on these expensive boxes that you are looking to buy?

Unless grandma or grandpa died from COVID. Sad but true.

Not sure what relevance that has to bank lending changes? The death rate hasn`t spiked in any meaningful way, and even if it did how does that affect a younger person needing to be in central London in a sky box, or more to the point someone hoping to sell an expensive sky box for half a mil or similar daft price? 

You were talking about help from BOMAD. If you have an inhertance then you don't need the same amount of bank lending.

I think it's pretty obvious how an inhertiance helps.

I do agree with you that London has a particular issue at the moment (which may go away when if get a vaccine).

Yes, but people have always been getting inheritance, why is it suddenly a game changer? Why did they introduce HTB if people are so flush with cash? - Answer - because most people are not flush with cash! And even less will be now that we are in a health/economic state of emergency. The game changer is that it is now harder for mum and dad to sell granny`s house in the Midlands and give little Johnny or Jenny money to throw at sky boxes in London. Interesting times indeed.

It's changed because the state killed quite a few people in nursing homes recently.

see graph for excess deaths here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53592881

I am not saying everyone is flush with cash (only the genuine buyers matter), but its a factor that counters your bnking restriction for BOMAD for some buyers.

It doesn't matter about most people.

What matters is whether demand exceeds supply.

I've already posted the nationwide figures for July so no need to post them again, but as usual we are silll waiting for the long awaited crash.

The problem for most ordinary people wanting to buy a home is will it come before they've paid so much in rent that the gamble of waiting hasn't paid off.

How long do you suggest people wait? 6 months? 12 months?

What if we get a vaccine and they are vaccinated in 9 months time, go ahead then?

How long have you been waiting, since 2001?

Did it change your plans to start a family or involve you in massive IVF costs because you left it too late?

How many examples do you have where waiting to buy has paid off over say the last 2 decades?

As I say, I think you may have gone past the point where ANY suggestion of ANYTHING other than getting mortgaged up for the next 25-30 years will do? Of course you bought in the 90`s before the bubble so you are basically advising people to do what you didn`t do i.e take out ten times their income in debt for basic accommodation.

You need to explain why 60 years of renting is better.
btw - mortgages get smaller over time 
actually the property I bought in 1991 went down until 1996 (if you are going to stalk personal details you need to be accurate). It wasn’t a big issue for the majority who don’t monitor the paper value and get on with a happy stable family life.
who said 10 times income?
tell us why 60-70 years renting is better.

The property market of 1991 has no bearing at all on someone committing to large mortgage debt at the present moment (worst time in a long time, but luckily for many the banks won`t let them make this commitment any more) I find your notion that being in mortgage debt somehow creates "happy stable family life" to be frankly bizarre, like some sort of mortgage ad, and offensive to the many generations who grew up well in rented and council accommodation, and your frequent rants about IVF are strange as well, I`m sure all the council house single mum`s have IVF treatment and mortgage debt as their highest priorities? Why not just admit that you are a VI, you want your favourite/biggest asset to stay high and  why not just acknowledge that when you bought is nothing like someone trying to "get on the ladder" today?

My home is not my favourite or biggest asset although it is a lovely and spacious place to live in recent circs. My pension is the biggest and financially the most important as I will be living OFF that as opposed to living IN the house. Hopefully the difference is clear - the pension is an asset whereas the home is not viewed as one. The house value doesn’t matter although I appreciate some struggle with that concept or perhaps cannot conceive of being in that position?

buying a house and building a pension has worked very well for me.
can you tell me why renting would have worked better? And how long I should have rented for?
to me 22 years mortgage with no CGT seems far better than 70 years rent
can you tell us your ideal proposal? Without the benefit of hindsight of course.

Apologies for the delay - down to being generally happy and unobsessed (not exactly effective ramping :-)

...meaning that buyers from the early 90`s can expect to sell for less than they may have hoped to?

I don't think buyers from the early '90s will have much to worry about now if prices drop lol.

That`s right, unlike the OP perhaps, they will be able to knock enough off their price to get a buyer, but the point was that buying in the early 90`s has no relevance to buying into today`s bubble.

Crashy_Time

jimbog said:

They would have to take a drop of over 300%

Does that include mortgage interest? Makes you wonder why so many of them are still active on property forums though doesn`t it? I think a lot from that era also piled into BTL, believing of course that it must be a one way bet, maybe that explains the agitation when the P word gets mentioned, or falling rents etc.?

redefinr

personally, I'm tired to read about this Rent/House price falling. Yeah, sale prices have been falling - but it's not like they are WAY down. I don't see anything cheaper than what I bought few months ago.
And for the rent, I didn't see any major fall. I just had a quick look:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/76925457#/

This is a building next to mine, studio flat for £900pcm so this is a 'price drop'? I don't think so. This looks as pricey as it was 1 year ago.
It's full on covid, brexit it's on, anything that was supposed to happen to drop prices it's happened. Shall we wait for an apocalypse now to see further drops? This is not the 90's anymore.... time is moving on

Crashy_Time

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/84200677#/
First one I found, £300 p.m price drop.

redefinr

Crashy_Time said:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/84200677#/
First one I found, £300 p.m price drop.

£300 p.m.....yeah, right lol