Universal Credit natural migration

Muttleythefrog

Currently receiving Income Related ESA (LCWRA) and PIP. Own own home.

Intending to move to another region. Will own own home.

Will this change trigger natural migration to Universal Credit? I still cannot find anything official regarding whether owning your own home prevents this migration and when any such restrictions will be lifted.

To complicate matters, partner subject to immigration rules so ESA claim a pseudo single person's. I am not sure if this is relevant.

poppy12345

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Currently receiving Income Related ESA (LCWRA) and PIP. Own own home.

Intending to move to another region. Will own own home.

Will this change trigger natural migration to Universal Credit? I still cannot find anything official regarding whether owning your own home prevents this migration and when any such restrictions will be lifted.

To complicate matters, partner subject to immigration rules so ESA claim a pseudo single person's. I am not sure if this is relevant.

As you're not planning on claiming for help with rent then moving home will not prompt a move to UC. It will just be a simple change of address.

Muttleythefrog

poppy12345 wrote: »

As you're not planning on claiming for help with rent then moving home will not prompt a move to UC. It will just be a simple change of address.

So... in basic terms... are you suggesting I would never be naturally migrated if this is the only change I have in the next year or so. And that in several years' time I would be instead be invited to apply for UC with caveat my IR ESA is coming to end?

poppy12345

Not unless a different change of circumstances prompts move, for EG being found fit for work for ESA could prompt a move.

Muttleythefrog

poppy12345 wrote: »

Not unless a different change of circumstances prompts move, for EG being found fit for work for ESA could prompt a move.

Thanks.... I wonder if my wife's circumstances would prompt natural migration down the line after house move... i.e. in 2021 she will (hopefully) get Indefinite leave to remain. That'd mean she is no longer subject to no public funds condition and my ESA would shift to paying couples rates and she will probably be able to also claim Carer's Allowance.

I've just has ESA reassessment... no decision yet but it should be Support Group for 3 years if the assessment report is followed. So I don't anticipate change there for at least 3 years.

So complex!

poppy12345

No, that wouldn't prompt a move. It would simply be adding her to your claim. Carers Allowance isn't part of UC so that won't prompt a move either.



For ESA you can be re-assessed anytime from 3 months. Not everyone goes 3 years between assessments.

Alice_Holt

I don't know the definite answer to this, but:

I just wonder if as your partner has currently no access to public funds whether this would mean that you are counted as "technically living alone", and would therefore be eligible for SDP on your ESA.
I think the answer is not, but it might be worth getting confirmation from your local CAB, they should be able to email their central Expert Advice Team to get the answer (and a legislative reference).

I just wonder because it seems inequitable if your partner can't claim CA, but their presence in the household then prevents you claiming SDP (however there are many inequities in the benefit system!).

poppy12345

Alice_Holt wrote: »

I don't know the definite answer to this, but:

I just wonder if as your partner has currently no access to public funds whether this would mean that you are counted as "technically living alone", and would therefore be eligible for SDP on your ESA.
I think the answer is not, but it might be worth getting confirmation from your local CAB, they should be able to email their central Expert Advice Team to get the answer (and a legislative reference).

I just wonder because it seems inequitable if your partner can't claim CA, but their presence in the household then prevents you claiming SDP (however there are many inequities in the benefit system!).

I think not also because the partner still lives in the same house, which therefore prevents eligibility to SDP.

Muttleythefrog

Alice_Holt wrote: »

I don't know the definite answer to this, but:

I just wonder if as your partner has currently no access to public funds whether this would mean that you are counted as "technically living alone", and would therefore be eligible for SDP on your ESA.
I think the answer is not, but it might be worth getting confirmation from your local CAB, they should be able to email their central Expert Advice Team to get the answer (and a legislative reference).

I just wonder because it seems inequitable if your partner can't claim CA, but their presence in the household then prevents you claiming SDP (however there are many inequities in the benefit system!).

To be honest Alice... getting hold of people who are both benefits experts and immigration law experts seems difficult... and CAB point blank refused to engage from memory on benefit enquiries I made for reason of my wife's status. Benefits calculators also do not deal with the scenario of a partner subject to no resource to public funds. We've had contact with people whose circumstances are not a million miles different than ours and some have had some very bad and plain incorrect advice from legal advisors. When I contacted the DWP for advice before my partner came to the UK I strangely seemed to trigger a fraud investigation... based not on the usual 'suspected cohabitation' which would relate to my query... but wild claims about a historic savings account holding vast monies that was easily disproved. I never got answers to the questions I asked... which actually were so we could accurately make the Visa application.

Anyway... on this issue I am pretty sure as poppy says... no. I think in effect she is on my claim but they only pay single rate.... so all of the negatives of having a partner with none of the benefits (literally!). It does mean I lost over £3k a year.. and will do for essentially nearly 6 years. With Visas fees likely to hit £10k in the end... quite a hit on budgeting...lol. So a non EU partner will cost around £30k.... if looking at purely financial terms..lol. Shoulda gone to Spanishbrides.com instead..lol.. same language... none of the pain.

I may well do as you suggest and see if I can get confirmation... but I think similar to for Council Tax where the single person discount disappears (which in itself caused issue as council tax rules conflicted with immigration law Re: my claim for council tax support increased as a result of the removal of the single person discount). Also confusing as mentioned in other recent posting is her free entitlements regarding NHS... the experts the NHS BSA help with healthcare costs division didn't seem to know whether IR ESA was relevant to her or not... and ultimately issued an HC2 (not considered a public fund) after I argued we had no evidence to support their position that she is in receipt of IR ESA or named on a partner claim. Worse the Home Office state in material she would need to pay for things like prescriptions and dental costs - false... and led to recovery of 3 years of backdated payments we'd made after I argued we had been wrongly advised by an official source we considered authority on the matter.

As you suggest it does seem to be an unfair event... losing SDP but not being able to claim the logical replacement. Just have to chalk it up to experience... I guess for people like us the trials and tribulations of the immigration processes make you thankful for some pretty basic things you do have... like each other... and the cat.

poppy12345

I think this is a catch 22 situation. Your wife isn't entitled to public funds but you can't claim the SDP because you live with your partner and she is expected to take care of you, even though they can't claim carers allowance.

Muttleythefrog

poppy12345 wrote: »

I think this is a catch 22 situation. Your wife isn't entitled to public funds but you can't claim the SDP because you live with your partner and she is expected to take care of you, even though they can't claim carers allowance.

And thus why the timing of move to UC is an interesting one for us... because as I see it... if we were moved to UC now we are better off... but if we are moved to UC under transitional protection after she becomes entitled to public funds then we may be better off. It seems to me either we benefit in the short term and lose out longer term or gain longer term losing out in shorter term depending on timing and whether natural migration or not. It won't make any difference to our plans but it is always nice to know what to expect. There's enough unknowns.. like with a PIP reassessment coming up... losing that would be catastrophic for her coming Visa application as it exempts us from the financial test leaving us to only need satisfy the old rules of maintain and accommodate.