Conduct Improvement Process

johnrt

Hello,
I am part of a 14 or 15 strong manager team with a total number of employees of over 100 on site. I run a department that has 18ish staff and I am their line manager.


The culture of management is (in my opinion) not great.
For example, another manager (same grade as me) has recently taken it upon themselves to walk round the building noting down all the staff who are not in correct uniform. They then compile a list and pass it around each manager. The expectation from the most senior managers is that I issue conduct letters and have disciplinary meetings from these lists with my department staff as their line manager.



I have issue with this. Firstly I have not seen any of the infractions myself, and while I do not believe the other manager is making it up, I was always trained (at previous employers) to only offer feedback on things I had witnessed. The manager who saw the poor performance or miscunduct should deal with it.



By the time I see the list it could be as much as a week or 10 days from the date the infractions were noted, hardly timely and the employees have likely already worked several times since.


I know that this kind of culture isn't breaking any hard rules or laws, but it seems poor practise to me.


Am I wrong, and if not any advice for trying to change the culture?

Tahlullah

I would be inclined to tell the person who is doing this that this is fantastic and you welcome their help by providing the information, but you are having difficulty in actioning it as the delay makes it hard to bring it up in any meaningful way with the employee. Perhaps they can raise it with the employee when they see it happening, and then report back to you to follow up ans re-enforce? After all, they are management as well and therefore should be able to raise it with the employees directly.

This is the positive answer in my opinion. What you don't know is if higher management asked them to do this. So, the positive, getting the other management colleagues on side is the way to proceed. Disagreeing without knowledge of why could make it harder for you in the long run.

getmore4less

Go round and check all the managers for infractions

Why not take this seriously and suggest that as soon as infractions are spotted people should be suspended immediately.

You certainly should be establishing the process and future actions for the repeat offenders and where they are going with this.

If allready in the discipline process beware the fallout if you are not spotting your team failing to dress properly.

theoretica

I would have thought the other way - glad your team are insulated by you from this manager.

TELLIT01

I agree that it's difficult to take disciplinary action against staff when you have no proof of them breaking the rules. The other manager needs to inform the manager of any miscreant on the day of the alleged offence or it's wasting everybody's time.
The comment that you should be aware of any of your staff breaking dress code rules is a valid one. Maybe you do need to be more vigilant too. Whether you feel the rules are being applied too rigidly or not is utterly irrelevant.

nicechap

johnrt wrote: »

Hello,
I am part of a 14 or 15 strong manager team with a total number of employees of over 100 on site. I run a department that has 18ish staff and I am their line manager.


The culture of management is (in my opinion) not great.
For example, another manager (same grade as me) has recently taken it upon themselves to walk round the building noting down all the staff who are not in correct uniform. They then compile a list and pass it around each manager. The expectation from the most senior managers is that I issue conduct letters and have disciplinary meetings from these lists with my department staff as their line manager.



I have issue with this. Firstly I have not seen any of the infractions myself, and while I do not believe the other manager is making it up, I was always trained (at previous employers) to only offer feedback on things I had witnessed. The manager who saw the poor performance or miscunduct should deal with it.



By the time I see the list it could be as much as a week or 10 days from the date the infractions were noted, hardly timely and the employees have likely already worked several times since.


I know that this kind of culture isn't breaking any hard rules or laws, but it seems poor practise to me.


Am I wrong, and if not any advice for trying to change the culture?

My reading of your issue is you are embarrassed in front of the senior management for not managing these issues yourself in the first place. Its clear they want them enforced and as a manager you do not have the freedom to undermine them by looking the other way.

Think about the phrasing of the excuses you have offered - not seeing these infractions yourself - does it make you seem less observant, more laisez faire? If someone reported sexual or racial harassment would you dismiss it if you hadn't witnessed it yourself? If the said assault was 10 days ago, would it make it any less worthy of being investigated?

Personally, I'd welcome the support of my colleague mangers and return the favour. If you want additional evidence from them, maybe you could look at CCTV of the relevant day or ask them to take a photo on their phone.

jonnygee2

I have issue with this. Firstly I have not seen any of the infractions myself, and while I do not believe the other manager is making it up, I was always trained (at previous employers) to only offer feedback on things I had witnessed. The manager who saw the poor performance or miscunduct should deal with it.



By the time I see the list it could be as much as a week or 10 days from the date the infractions were noted, hardly timely and the employees have likely already worked several times since.


I know that this kind of culture isn't breaking any hard rules or laws, but it seems poor practise to me.

I have to agree it's clearly making a mountain out of a molehill and creating unnecessary work.

Although I think in general it's good for feedback to be passed through the line manager for something like this a quick conversation on the spot is far more effective and efficient than an awkward conversation several days after the fact.

Why don't you just speak to the other SMs etc and say that you think it's a lot of paperwork for minor uniform infractions and you think that everyone who is a manager should be comfortable raising this with non-managers on the spot. As long as you are all aligned in what you are saying and how its enforced there shouldn't be an issue.

Still if they disagree just do whatever the SMs tell you to do.

MacMickster

I would suggest speaking to your staff in general and telling them that if they are seen wearing incorrect dress from now on then you will be going down a conduct and discipline process with them. You will then have to check daily that all staff have shown both you and the business respect by turning up correctly attired. It shouldn't need other managers to notice that your staff are being slovenly.

If senior managers want the dress code rigidly enforced then do the job that you are paid to do by them. If you don't agree with this then I would be looking for another job pretty sharpish before they take action against you for failing to do your job.

Les79

I would firstly find out whether the instruction is coming from a more senior manager. Could be a case of "don't shoot the messenger" if that's the case.

swingaloo

If the job requires people to be in the correct uniform then surely its part of each team managers job to make sure that their own staff are complying with the rules.


If I were senior management I would be wondering why it is another manger who is picking up that there are problems with your team.

How come you didn't notice?