We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Leashold property - responsibility for repair and refurbishment of window sills and windows
ap2048
Posts: 8 Forumite
Hi All,
I own a flat in a Georgian property. The property is managed by the owners as an internal management company and the flats are share of freehold. Recently, one of the flat owners has complained about the state of their window and window sills and asked the management company to repair them. Historically, we have previously agreed that owners are responsible for windows and window sills but reading the lease, I am not sure who the responsibility lies with. The property was painted externally (including sash windows externally) 5 years ago.
The lease states:
The Lessee hereby covenants with the Lessor in manner following
3.6) In every seventh year of the said term and also in the last year thereof whether determined by effluxion of time or otherwise to paint paper distemper or otherwise treat as the case may be all the interior of the demised premises usually or requiring to be painted papered distempered or otherwise treated including ceilings all in a proper workman like manner
3.7) From time to time and at all times during the said term well and substantially to repair cleanse and keep in good and substantial repair and condition the demised premises including for the avoidance of doubt all additions thereto and all glasses in the windows and the door furniture (both internal and external) and all lessors fixtures and fittings and appurtenances thereunto belonging of whatsoever nature and to replace and renew all such items as and when necessary and to replace all missing keys and renew all washers to taps and ball valves as and when necessary provided that this covenant shall as regards to structural repairs extend only to the internal dividing wall of the flat and any repairs to the property rendered necessary by any breach by the lessee of any covenant in this lease including this covenant.
3.8)Forthwith to repair and make good to the satisfaction of the Lessor any damage caused to any part of the property (other than the demised premises) by the negligence of the Lessee or of the Lessee’s family or guests or invitees.
Obligations of management company: Matters to which service charge relates: (25)
4) In the first and every subsequent fourth year of the term hereby granted and also in the last year hereof whether determined by effluxion of time or otherwise to paint all the outside wood and metal work of the building and any other parts of the building or the property usually requiring to be painted with three coats of good quality paint in a proper workmanlike manner.
5) To keep the external walls and stonework of the building in good decorative repair and condition and clean and distemper the same as often as shall be necessary.
6) From time to time and at all times during the term hereby granted well and substantially to repair cleanse and keep in good substantial repair and condition all parts of the property not for the time being comprised is any flat lease and all glass in the windows and the door furniture and all lessors fixtures and fittings and appurtenances belonging to such parts of whatsoever nature and including also the surfaces of party walls facing the common hallways staircases and landings of the buildings.
7) To keep in good state or repair the structure of the building including party walls) provided that this provision shall not include any repairs for which the lessee is liable under clause 3.7 and 3.8 hereof or for which the holder of any flat-lease for the time being subsisting i liable under the corresponding clause in his flat-lease.
Sorry about the length but I thought I would include as much of the lease as was relevant to my question above. Would be really grateful for any help/advice.
Many thanks.
I own a flat in a Georgian property. The property is managed by the owners as an internal management company and the flats are share of freehold. Recently, one of the flat owners has complained about the state of their window and window sills and asked the management company to repair them. Historically, we have previously agreed that owners are responsible for windows and window sills but reading the lease, I am not sure who the responsibility lies with. The property was painted externally (including sash windows externally) 5 years ago.
The lease states:
The Lessee hereby covenants with the Lessor in manner following
3.6) In every seventh year of the said term and also in the last year thereof whether determined by effluxion of time or otherwise to paint paper distemper or otherwise treat as the case may be all the interior of the demised premises usually or requiring to be painted papered distempered or otherwise treated including ceilings all in a proper workman like manner
3.7) From time to time and at all times during the said term well and substantially to repair cleanse and keep in good and substantial repair and condition the demised premises including for the avoidance of doubt all additions thereto and all glasses in the windows and the door furniture (both internal and external) and all lessors fixtures and fittings and appurtenances thereunto belonging of whatsoever nature and to replace and renew all such items as and when necessary and to replace all missing keys and renew all washers to taps and ball valves as and when necessary provided that this covenant shall as regards to structural repairs extend only to the internal dividing wall of the flat and any repairs to the property rendered necessary by any breach by the lessee of any covenant in this lease including this covenant.
3.8)Forthwith to repair and make good to the satisfaction of the Lessor any damage caused to any part of the property (other than the demised premises) by the negligence of the Lessee or of the Lessee’s family or guests or invitees.
Obligations of management company: Matters to which service charge relates: (25)
4) In the first and every subsequent fourth year of the term hereby granted and also in the last year hereof whether determined by effluxion of time or otherwise to paint all the outside wood and metal work of the building and any other parts of the building or the property usually requiring to be painted with three coats of good quality paint in a proper workmanlike manner.
5) To keep the external walls and stonework of the building in good decorative repair and condition and clean and distemper the same as often as shall be necessary.
6) From time to time and at all times during the term hereby granted well and substantially to repair cleanse and keep in good substantial repair and condition all parts of the property not for the time being comprised is any flat lease and all glass in the windows and the door furniture and all lessors fixtures and fittings and appurtenances belonging to such parts of whatsoever nature and including also the surfaces of party walls facing the common hallways staircases and landings of the buildings.
7) To keep in good state or repair the structure of the building including party walls) provided that this provision shall not include any repairs for which the lessee is liable under clause 3.7 and 3.8 hereof or for which the holder of any flat-lease for the time being subsisting i liable under the corresponding clause in his flat-lease.
Sorry about the length but I thought I would include as much of the lease as was relevant to my question above. Would be really grateful for any help/advice.
Many thanks.
0
Comments
-
The freeholder.
The lease provides for the freeholder to paint them externally and it provides for the freeholder to repair all the structural elements of the building, although the glass seems to fall to both parties.
The only structure the leaseholder is responsible for is the dividing wall/s within the flat.
The leaseholder ends up paying, of course, but it's usual that the freeholder is responsible for the windows so that the building maintains uniformity.Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
0 -
Many thanks Doozergirl. The lease states the following:
"at all times during the said term well and substantially to repair cleanse and keep in good and substantial repair and condition the demised premises including for the avoidance of doubt all additions thereto and all glasses in the windows and the door furniture (both internal and external) and all lessors fixtures and fittings and appurtenances thereunto "
It seems to mentions glass in the window as the lessee responsibility so does that mean any glass related repairs in the windows are for the lessee to pay and wood repairs are the management company's costs? Or does the management company have full responsibility for the whole window including the glass.
Also do windows considered legally part of the fixtures and fittings as they are not structurally part of the house?
Thanks for all your help.0 -
What you've quoted doesn't tell us what the "demised premises" is defined as - are there any clues there?0
-
What is the definition of the demise?
Is the lease plan clear enough to see whether the demised area includes or excludes the windows.0 -
Thanks Davidmcn. I've just had a look at the lease and the term demised property isn't defined. The lease dates back to 1981 when the property was converted into flats.0
-
It says "the original lessor hereby demises and leases unto the lessee all that flat at ......
No description about what demised premises actually specifically refere to0 -
The glass is also given to the freeholder as a responsibility.
I think your assumption that a window is a fixture and fitting is wrong. The integrity of the structure is absolutely reliant upon windows to keep it dry and secure. They are there to bring light in, otherwise the space would be wall.
You can put whatever fittings you want inside, it makes no difference to the structure. You can even have no fixtures or fittings.
Not the same with windows! They are as essential as a roof.Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
0 -
all that flat at .... as shown on the attached plan outlined in red???It says "the original lessor hereby demises and leases unto the lessee all that flat at ......
No description about what demised premises actually specifically refere to
What does the outline of the demise show re the windows?0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.7K Spending & Discounts
- 246K Work, Benefits & Business
- 602.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.8K Life & Family
- 259.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards
