It's time to start digging up those Squirrelled Nuts!!!!

JoeEngland

jimi_man wrote: »

It does seem quite low admittedly, but when you actually look at the figures again, it makes sense. I recall from previous posts that they don't have children, rarely go out, don't really buy gifts for people, only run one car (The fuel costs work out to about 70 gallons a year - possibly 3-4000 miles a year - so very little car usage as well), and they have virtually no holidays. The council tax amount suggests that they don't have a particularly large house, so all the costs of running that are commensurately smaller.

Also it doesn't include depreciation and capital spends as they've stated.

I thought the groceries sounded quite low, but the bill works out to about £50 a week for two - ours is around £80-90 for three adults, shopping at Sainsburys - so that seems around reasonably normal.

They don't carry or spend much cash which I can identify with. Interestingly we've just been for a short break to the US and took no currency whatsoever and never got any out. Just used a card exclusively.

The big difference is the holidays. We've been away 10 times this year - Europe six times and long haul four times. (Yes I realise my carbon footprint is massive, though probably at least half of those were on an opportunistic standby basis, so I didn't really contribute much extra CO2, the plane was going anyway - if that's any justification).

Where I take my hat off is that they have detailed each and every spend over the year! I just could not be be bothered!

Don't feel guilty about flying. Unless everyone in the world decides to fly less or not at all, or most govts limit flying then your flights ain't going to make any difference to climate change. In fact, far more than curbing avaiation is needed to reduce carbon emissions to affect climate change, and the 5 countries who account for more than 60% of emissions aren't in any rush to significantly reduce theirs.

michaels

JoeEngland wrote: »

Don't feel guilty about flying. Unless everyone in the world decides to fly less or not at all, or most govts limit flying then your flights ain't going to make any difference to climate change. In fact, far more than curbing avaiation is needed to reduce carbon emissions to affect climate change, and the 5 countries who account for more than 60% of emissions aren't in any rush to significantly reduce theirs.

Off topic but I completely disagree, I think each of us needs to do our best regardless of what everyone else does. I think of it like litter - the fact that I don't litter doesn't mean that the streets will miraculously be clean but even though I know they will be dirty I still don't drop litter myself. There are great resorts in Europe that are comparable to Mexico or the Caribbean they just probably cost as much even though there is no long haul flight but we should make the choice to holiday locally for the sake of the environment.

atush

I disagree.

I will keep flying home to america. Not giving up on my home country because it is an ocean away. But i dont litter.

JoeEngland

michaels wrote: »

Off topic but I completely disagree, I think each of us needs to do our best regardless of what everyone else does. I think of it like litter - the fact that I don't litter doesn't mean that the streets will miraculously be clean but even though I know they will be dirty I still don't drop litter myself. There are great resorts in Europe that are comparable to Mexico or the Caribbean they just probably cost as much even though there is no long haul flight but we should make the choice to holiday locally for the sake of the environment.

I don't think dropping litter is a suitable analogy. There's nothing wrong with people reducing their carbon emissions, but they shouldn't think that it'll make any difference to climate change unless everyone in the world does the same and govts enforce changes in how power is generated. In fact, we could stop emitting CO2 in the UK tomorrow and it wouldn't make any difference to climate change.

michaels

JoeEngland wrote: »

I don't think dropping litter is a suitable analogy. There's nothing wrong with people reducing their carbon emissions, but they shouldn't think that it'll make any difference to climate change unless everyone in the world does the same and govts enforce changes in how power is generated. In fact, we could stop emitting CO2 in the UK tomorrow and it wouldn't make any difference to climate change.

So just like dropping litter, an individual stopping doing it will make no difference locally,a country stopping doing it will make no difference globally. So might as well drop litter anyway?

JoeEngland

michaels wrote: »

So just like dropping litter, an individual stopping doing it will make no difference locally,a country stopping doing it will make no difference globally. So might as well drop litter anyway?

The subject is climate change not litter. TBH I wonder why people resort to analogies rather than discuss the actual subject at hand. Anyway, the reality is that most people aren't changing their behaviour in any significant way that would make a difference to climate change. Unlike dropping litter, there are benefits and costs to economic activities that makes carbon emissons. So I don't think a person should feel guilty for flying while lots of other people contiue doing it. If everyone stopped flying then millions of people, including in poorer countries, would be out of work and govts would have less tax take. The whole issue of how to tackle climate change is complex and not a simple case of carbon emisson = bad. As humans have always had to, we'll have to adapt to a changing climate even if carbon emissions are scaled back.

Sea_Shell

I think we ALL have a personal responsibility to do our bit, however large or small, to help alleviate damage to the planet. Whether that's to the climate, to the oceans or to the land.

IMO you can't split the 3, they are all interconnected.

In the bath the other day...I realised my Body Puff was looking a bit tired, and starting to come apart. Usually, i'd just get another from Poundland or somewhere (they're only cheap), but then I thought NO. I have a perfectly good cotton flannel, and a hemp body mitt, so do I really need another piece of plastic in my life that will eventually end up in landfill somewhere!!!

Will my decision save the planet....obviously not. Will thousands (if not millions) of body puffs still be manufactured...of course. Does that mean I should just buy one and sod it!!!!??

Anyway, that's my 2 pence worth.

We all have to look at ourselves in the mirror each morning, and for those with kids or grandkids...that stare should be a long hard one!!!

LHW99

Sea_Shell wrote: »

I think we ALL have a personal responsibility to do our bit, however large or small, to help alleviate damage to the planet. Whether that's to the climate, to the oceans or to the land.

IMO you can't split the 3, they are all interconnected.

In the bath the other day...I realised my Body Puff was looking a bit tired, and starting to come apart. Usually, i'd just get another from Poundland or somewhere (they're only cheap), but then I thought NO. I have a perfectly good cotton flannel, and a hemp body mitt, so do I really need another piece of plastic in my life that will eventually end up in landfill somewhere!!!

Will my decision save the planet....obviously not. Will thousands (if not millions) of body puffs still be manufactured...of course. Does that mean I should just buy one and sod it!!!!??

Anyway, that's my 2 pence worth.

We all have to look at ourselves in the mirror each morning, and for those with kids or grandkids...that stare should be a long hard one!!!

I agree, in principle.
Howeverthe complications come in when you go a bit deeper - Would a new puff last longer than a hemp mitt or cotton flannel? Do these natural fibres mean more fertilisers in use, adding to run-off, do they mean additional areas of land clearance to grow the crops? Are they made in sweatshops in an undeveloped country as opposed to (perhaps) manufactured by robots controlled by workers with a living wage?
In the end, IMO its the thousands / millions bit that you pick out that are the issue - we need to reduce the consumerism that has been the main ploy of advertising for the past many decades. That in itself will cause profound change, as without constant buying of new items, less manufacturing is needed (and likely more repairability).

Sea_Shell

LHW99 wrote: »

I agree, in principle.
Howeverthe complications come in when you go a bit deeper - Would a new puff last longer than a hemp mitt or cotton flannel? Do these natural fibres mean more fertilisers in use, adding to run-off, do they mean additional areas of land clearance to grow the crops? Are they made in sweatshops in an undeveloped country as opposed to (perhaps) manufactured by robots controlled by workers with a living wage?
In the end, IMO its the thousands / millions bit that you pick out that are the issue - we need to reduce the consumerism that has been the main ploy of advertising for the past many decades. That in itself will cause profound change, as without constant buying of new items, less manufacturing is needed (and likely more repairability).

Going one step further...do I need a flannel or mitt at all!? Hands would suffice (they do in the shower)

With an annual spend of £11000, there's not much consumerism going on in our house!!!;)

When you really boil it down, there is very little that we actually NEED. Most things are likes, wants or nice to haves, that either enrich our lives or make them easier or more pleasant.

In the end we all have to decide where we draw our own lines.

Karmacat

Sea_Shell wrote: »

I think we ALL have a personal responsibility to do our bit, however large or small, to help alleviate damage to the planet. Whether that's to the climate, to the oceans or to the land.

IMO you can't split the 3, they are all interconnected.

In the bath the other day...I realised my Body Puff was looking a bit tired, and starting to come apart. Usually, i'd just get another from Poundland or somewhere (they're only cheap), but then I thought NO. I have a perfectly good cotton flannel, and a hemp body mitt, so do I really need another piece of plastic in my life that will eventually end up in landfill somewhere!!!

Will my decision save the planet....obviously not. Will thousands (if not millions) of body puffs still be manufactured...of course. Does that mean I should just buy one and sod it!!!!??

Anyway, that's my 2 pence worth.

We all have to look at ourselves in the mirror each morning, and for those with kids or grandkids...that stare should be a long hard one!!!

Absolutely! And analysis-paralysis would be just as negative as ignoring the situation altogether. I'm sure no one is implying that using a flannel and body mitt you already have is your last ever word on the subject. But if you own something, use it up, then make further decisions after further research. That's my current thinking.