Deed of variation

Tom99

NeilCr wrote: »

The residual clause is along the lines of 'to help this generic group of people". Sorry I don't want to be too specific but a silly example would be "to provide help and support to teddy bears ". No teddy bears named nor any specific teddy bear charity

Mojisola. No - not home made.

I sort of had that thought about a DoV but I don't have enough knowledge which was why I asked here.

It didn't sound a runner to me, to be honest.

I would have thought that the executors would probably have to identify one or more charities or other organisations which provide help to this group of people.
You would then be asking them to give up some of their inheritance in favour of the other named beneficiaries who will already have received the full amount allotted to them in the will.
I don't think any organisation would do that.

NeilCr

Tom99 wrote: »

I would have thought that the executors would probably have to identify one or more charities or other organisations which provide help to this group of people.
You would then be asking them to give up some of their inheritance in favour of the other named beneficiaries who will already have received the full amount allotted to them in the will.
I don't think any organisation would do that.

That was along my line of thinking. I can certainly think of some local charities that I would nominate to them. To be clear, this isn't about the extra money for me - I would much rather it went to that group who were mentioned in the will. That would have been the deceased's intention which I believe should be followed.

It was the question about whether a deed of variation could be used in such a situation which interested me. I would have thought not but don't have the knowledge

I guess it's the vagueness of the clause that is causing the issue. As Mojisola says nominating a specific charity would, it seems to me, to have been the way to go

The executor's "argument" is that if the deceased had changed his will (which I do know he intended to) he would have likely "uprated" the monetary bequests when doing so.

Tom99

Thinking about it I don't think a DOV would be possible.
In order for Charity XYZ to be asked to sign a deed of variation then Charity XYZ would have to be a named beneficiary in the Will.
By DOV the beneficiary gives up something they are entitled to inherit, but under the will Charity XYZ was not entitled to anything.

nom_de_plume

NeilCr wrote: »

It doesn't specify who they are or any particular charity.

NeilCr wrote: »

Sorry I don't want to be too specific but a silly example would be "to provide help and support to teddy bears ". No teddy bears named nor any specific teddy bear charity.

NeilCr wrote: »

Probate not granted yet.

I understand your wanting to be vague but wondered if the bequest could be construed to apply to any of the bigger charities such as, for example, Cancer Research or Help The Aged? I ask as it's not uncommon for these charities to obtain details of bequests in Wills and chase the Executors for the funds.

It may be, in your example, that Help the Aged Teddy Bears and Cancer Research for Teddies UK would be hoping and chasing for the bequest to come their way.

NeilCr

nom_de_plume wrote: »

I understand your wanting to be vague but wondered if the bequest could be construed to apply to any of the bigger charities such as, for example, Cancer Research or Help The Aged? I ask as it's not uncommon for these charities to obtain details of bequests in Wills and chase the Executors for the funds.

It may be, in your example, that Help the Aged Teddy Bears and Cancer Research for Teddies UK would be hoping and chasing for the bequest to come their way.

No. Not really.

NeilCr

Tom99 wrote: »

Thinking about it I don't think a DOV would be possible.
In order for Charity XYZ to be asked to sign a deed of variation then Charity XYZ would have to be a named beneficiary in the Will.
By DOV the beneficiary gives up something they are entitled to inherit, but under the will Charity XYZ was not entitled to anything.

To be honest, I hope a DOV isn't possible.

This came out of the blue yesterday. Now I've thought about it I'd rather it stood as it was and the executors worked out how to respond to the vague request.

I certainly would struggle with, actually, having to sign anything to put this into effect. And, I suspect, that would put me at odds with at least one of the other beneficiaries!

Mojisola

The beneficiaries who will have their inheritance increased by the DOV don't sign it - only those reducing their inheritance do so.

In this case, the residual beneficiary isn't identified so the executors would have to find a group who fit the parameters, tell them about the inheritance and then ask them to give some of it up!

NeilCr

Mojisola wrote: »

The beneficiaries who will have their inheritance increased by the DOV don't sign it - only those reducing their inheritance do so.

In this case, the residual beneficiary isn't identified so the executors would have to find a group who fit the parameters, tell them about the inheritance and then ask them to give some of it up!

Thanks Mojisola

Pretty much where I was getting to after thinking about it, reading the comments here and doing some googling

I appreciate your input

Certainly makes life easier for me!

getmore4less

depends on the rest of the wording typically the executors become trustees of the assets and have some flexibility(mainly on timing).

Since the beneficiaries of the residual seem to be a class it might be worth taking advise(from the solicitors that wrote it) how much discretion the trustees have.

An example of a class could be "all grandchildren alive at my death"

There is a case on the step site where the clause for assets in a trust is
“a home or sanctuary for Chinese vegetarian women of Buddhist faith”

NeilCr

getmore4less wrote: »

depends on the rest of the wording typically the executors become trustees of the assets and have some flexibility(mainly on timing).

Since the beneficiaries of the residual seem to be a class it might be worth taking advise(from the solicitors that wrote it) how much discretion the trustees have.

An example of a class could be "all grandchildren alive at my death"

There is a case on the step site where the clause for assets in a trust is
“a home or sanctuary for Chinese vegetarian women of Buddhist faith”

Thanks

The solicitor who drew up the will is the second executor. I am going to stay out of it and let them sort it out amongst themselves

I've just found out that there are three charities mentioned in the will - one of which could be construed as covering the group mentioned in the generic clause.

Out of interest what is the "step site"?