Curve card - accidental cash withdrawal on credit card

PRAISETHESUN

Depending on how the MCC is passed along to your bank and how they interpret it will determine if you get charged fees for withdrawing cash on a credit card or not. I can't speak from experience with regards to the cash fee charged by your bank, but my best guess would be that since this is an additional charge from your bank unrelated to the original transaction then it will not be refunded by Curve, who will only deal with the initial transaction.

T-G-C

There is no list of cards which do and do not get charged for withdrawing cash on Curve, since the MCC is passed straight to the card issuer in all instances. However, the Go Back In Time feature re-captures funds from the new payment card; using the same MCC code; but does not do the same with a refund. The refund is a VISA or MasterCard credit to the card. You will still be liable for the cash fee, as the refund transaction and the original "cash" transaction are two separate entities.

As the refund will be for the same amount as the cash transaction, you could speak to your card issuer and explain the situation, in which case they might agree to waive interest and charges for you, but this is at their discretion.

Curve are not responsible for charges accrued on an underlying payment card. It is considered your responsibility to ensure that the correct card is selected during a cash withdrawal, as the reversal system is a courtesy measure for occasional purchase mistakes.

Terry_Towelling

This sounds like some kind of official spokesperson response and, if it is, it confirms that switching a transaction via the 'Back-in-Time' feature does indeed involve the use of a Refund Transaction rather than a Cash Reversal.

The question that springs to mind (well, to my mind anyway) is what MCC is used to accompany the Refund, because I imagine a Refund Transaction with an MCC6010/6011 should be rejected by Visa/MasterCard systems - I could be wrong, I'm only imagining.

If a non-cash MCC is used to 'force' the credit through, it is certain that any cash fee previously applied by any underlying Issuer will not be refunded automatically and Curve itself will receive a small Interchange Fee credit.

To my way of thinking, if Curve is going to offer the 'Back-in-Time' service on Cash transactions, they ought to do it via a Cash Reversal or, flash up a message at the time a customer uses the function to warn them that any cash fees applied will not be refunded during the process. It is fair enough to say the T&Cs cover this but I'd think it should be displayed at the time too.

Stuart_W

studentsaver_889 wrote: »

I use curve to withdraw cash from my aqua and no charges.

Thank you. This is what I was after - experience from other curve users.

To update -

The pending transaction has disappeared from my Aqua account, so the account currently looks as if no cash withdrawal was ever made, so currently no cash withdrawal charges showing.

The cash withdrawal has now appeared on my current account, and is categorised as a purchase.

So it seems "back in time" for a cash withdrawal has worked, and not incurred any charges.

But studentsaver's experience suggests I could have left the cash withdrawal on my aqua card and still had no fee.

jimroy

I recently made a purchase with cashback at Tesco using their Pay+ app.
I forgot that my underlying card was a credit card. It was the first time I'd done that since the changes last year.

I went 'back in time' successfully shortly after using an underlying debit card instead. I didn't want to take the risk.

I didn't incur any charges as a result of the successful initial pending payment on the credit card. In fact it was the same credit card I was able to withdraw cash on penalty free with Curve prior to the changes last year. And that was directly via ATM or cashback.

Hope that helps.

T-G-C

Generally, it is the credit card provider's discretion on whether to consider a particular transaction as cash or not. Curve provides them with the required information to make a correct and informed decision on such.

You are advised against withdrawing cash on a credit card and proceeding to do so, intentional or otherwise, could incur charges and cash interest, if applicable.

In case of a mistaken cash transaction, perform a switch of the transaction onto the correct card and await the outcome. If you believe you have been charged a fee or cash interest in error, it is at the discretion of your credit card provider to correct this for you.

It is essential that you select the correct card in your Curve application before making a purchase. This will avoid a complicated scenario with your card issuer.

Terry_Towelling

In OP's case here, it sounds as if they managed to change things before the transaction actually cleared which, presumably, means there has been no refunding/reversing of anything other than the Authorisation request. That should mean there will definitely be no cash fees on the Aqua account because the transaction was never debited there.

This statement is interesting.

Generally, it is the credit card provider's discretion on whether to consider a particular transaction as cash or not. Curve provides them with the required information to make a correct and informed decision on such.

Yes, it is correct but it hints at something unusual in the way Curve passes on the transactions. To be honest, any transaction fully and correctly profiled as cash will always be treated as cash - why wouldn't it be? But, if it isn't treated as cash, that does suggest the profiling isn't complete.

Looking at a Visa credit card cash transaction in particular, that will carry an MCC6010/6011 and a Transaction Code 07 (TC07). That means the card provider will probably be charged an Interchange Fee for accepting the transaction. In turn they will levy a cash fee on the cardholder's account to recoup that fee. Yes, they could decide not to, but it doesn't make great business sense on their part.

If Curve is not passing the TC07 (or MasterCard equivalent) but substituting it with a TC05 (Purchase/Sale) then that could indeed not register as 'cash' in the card provider's systems and a fee might not be charged - it depends what the card provider uses to determine the transaction type.

I think there are implications for the flow of the interchange fees here. Curve might be losing out by taking on a cash transaction and not forwarding that on in identical fashion. Sadly, I'm not up to date on Interchange fees but I'd be surprised if there wasn't something going on underneath that means Curve is either losing money on cash transactions or, more likely, making a few pence here and there - but that's another story and, to be honest, I don't really have a problem with it.

kevChan

to answer your initial question:

yes, I have go back in time with credit card, to a debit card, or even to another credit card.
It all works. Not a single problem.

(just don't do it on Tesco/RBS cards system. they charge cash advance, the only ones I know will do this)

T-G-C

Terry_Towelling wrote: »

In OP's case here, it sounds as if they managed to change things before the transaction actually cleared which, presumably, means there has been no refunding/reversing of anything other than the Authorisation request. That should mean there will definitely be no cash fees on the Aqua account because the transaction was never debited there.

This statement is interesting.

Yes, it is correct but it hints at something unusual in the way Curve passes on the transactions. To be honest, any transaction fully and correctly profiled as cash will always be treated as cash - why wouldn't it be? But, if it isn't treated as cash, that does suggest the profiling isn't complete.

Looking at a Visa credit card cash transaction in particular, that will carry an MCC6010/6011 and a Transaction Code 07 (TC07). That means the card provider will probably be charged an Interchange Fee for accepting the transaction. In turn they will levy a cash fee on the cardholder's account to recoup that fee. Yes, they could decide not to, but it doesn't make great business sense on their part.

If Curve is not passing the TC07 (or MasterCard equivalent) but substituting it with a TC05 (Purchase/Sale) then that could indeed not register as 'cash' in the card provider's systems and a fee might not be charged - it depends what the card provider uses to determine the transaction type.

I think there are implications for the flow of the interchange fees here. Curve might be losing out by taking on a cash transaction and not forwarding that on in identical fashion. Sadly, I'm not up to date on Interchange fees but I'd be surprised if there wasn't something going on underneath that means Curve is either losing money on cash transactions or, more likely, making a few pence here and there - but that's another story and, to be honest, I don't really have a problem with it.

For some time, Curve did not pass on information to the card issuer in respect of a cash transaction taking place, which raised fair concerns from the credit card companies about their customers being able to bypass their fixed fee and interest rate.

This was rectified and since then, each cash withdrawal is processed to ensure that the card issuer is aware that a cash transaction has taken place, as opposed to a standard purchase.

If a card issuer fails to recognize the transaction as a cash advance, despite Curve using the appropriate identifiers, this would be their own responsibility. However, there is no indication whatsoever that card issuers are failing to recognize Curve's ATM withdrawals as cash transactions.

Terry_Towelling

T-G-C wrote: »

For some time, Curve did not pass on information to the card issuer in respect of a cash transaction taking place, which raised fair concerns from the credit card companies about their customers being able to bypass their fixed fee and interest rate.

This was rectified and since then, each cash withdrawal is processed to ensure that the card issuer is aware that a cash transaction has taken place, as opposed to a standard purchase.

If a card issuer fails to recognize the transaction as a cash advance, despite Curve using the appropriate identifiers, this would be their own responsibility. However, there is no indication whatsoever that card issuers are failing to recognize Curve's ATM withdrawals as cash transactions.

I guess the acid test of Curve's processing would be for a customer to use an underlying credit card to make a cash withdrawal direct (not via Curve) and see whether they get a cash fee. Evidence suggests they will get a fee if they do.

If said customer then repeats the process but going via Curve, the impression I'm getting is that they don't always get charged a fee. So there does seem to be a data transmission difference between going 'direct' and going via Curve and that different issuers use different data elements to recognise cash.

If the payment schemes have approved Curve's current profiling of cash transactions then that is fine but I suspect there may be more rumblings in the pipeline.

I don't wish to upset the apple cart for those guys still getting free cash on credit cards via Curve and I suspect there are Interchange Fee implications for Curve with the way things are working, but my Interchange Fee knowledge is not complete, so I will say no more on that.