Why are property prices so different in the north?

DigForVictory

Southern born Northern economic migrant as I elected not to move back under my parents' wing.

London has all sorts of amazing things, opportunities, people. So does Manchester & I'm less than 3 hours by train away from London, but the cost of living is significantly less.

Sure the public transport infrastructure is a bit poor (Southern Rail got the news headlines - Northern Rail was doing pretty much as badly, just to much fewer journalists notice) but we can currently drive into town without a congestion charge or custom engine as well as enjoy a bus, train or tram.

Just don't tell the South too clearly or they'll all want to migrate up here & complain about the wet whist enjoying the footballers lives lifestyle (did I mention we do have enclaves of seriously rich up here? Pity, but there you go. Helps keep the Arts patronised & subsidised so us peons can gawk at touring collections/shows etc as well as our own stuff.)

It works for me. Other Southerners are free to disagree!

lisyloo

Zero_Sum wrote: »

If people choose to live in overpriced shoeboxes then thats up to them its not for me.

Not the case and show ignorance of the London property market.
Foreign investors buy property in London for capital appreciation and don’t live in them (and example is Chinese/Malaysians buying flats in battersea power station).
They prefer to keep them pristine than rent them out to tenants.

I don’t pretend to have much knowledge of the north/Scotland.
Some northerners don’t have much knowledge of what it’s like down south,
It’s not all the same.
Some places are poor and have seasonal jobs e.g. Cornwall.
Other cities are vibrant and have posh spots and crime ridden spots e.g. Bristol.
You can’t lump it all together.

Zero_Sum

lisyloo wrote: »

Not the case and show ignorance of the London property market.
Foreign investors buy property in London for capital appreciation and don’t live in them (and example is Chinese/Malaysians buying flats in battersea power station).
They prefer to keep them pristine than rent them out to tenants.

On the contrary, as you've chosen to ignore the bit i posted on foreign investors which reconciles to what you posted above.

zagubov

westernpromise wrote: »

That's an interesting read, but all it really says is that state central planning is a disaster and totally unequal to confronting challenges like the decline of metal bashing rustbelt industries. It's a damning indictment of typically socialist thinking.

I's say central planning needs to be replaced by regional planning involving devolved governments.

Centralisation isn't working for most of the public. The government and civil service should relocate out of London.

Germany did very well for itself when its capital was small and the Lander had their own governments and looked after their own interests. It stopped any one city sucking the life out of the country.

lisyloo

Just don't tell the South too clearly or they'll all want to migrate up here

I don’t want to move there because of career and family, those are the big two.

There is actually something of an exodus from London.
100,000 net per annum at the moment (in the metro).
But I don’t think we’ll see a mass exodus unless something significant changes (like moving all of government and banking out of london) which doesn’t look like it’s on the cards.

I personally dont think people are too stupid to realise/sleep walking.
They will be where they are because of career, family or they love the vibe or some actual reason.
I suppose there might be a few going round in a drug induced coma, but I can’t imagine most don’t consider alternatives when they are dissatisfied.

Mistermeaner

cheshire here; housing very affordable, schools invariably good a great place to work and raise a family

I work in london alot and also europe and the USA; liverpool and manchester airports are 30mins from home and train from crewe is 1hr 40mins to euston

My commute is 15miles (one way) an takes 20-30mins depending on traffic. When time allows I cycle (along a canal)

Most of my social circle have remained in the relatively small town we grew up in and tend to work in the bigger towns (or cities) around us - even those with minimal qualifications and distinctly average jobs (call centres / landscape gardeners) enjoy home ownership of decent size properties have regular holidays etc.

In my experience life in the north is fairly similar to life in the suburbs of the big american cities; if you have an average job you can live well - you might never be 'rich' but cost of living is low and life is relatively 'easy' and stress free

If we want cosmopolitan entertainment its a trip to manchester or liverpool generally but most folk with kids are too darn tired to go out so the simple pleasures of local pubs and free fun like walking / cycling / the park etc tend to rule.

Oh I'll also add north wales / snowdonia, the lake district and the peak district are all within a 2hour drive - lots of folk i know (generally a bit older) own static caravans in these areas as budget 2nd homes / bolt holes

GreatApe

London has high paying jobs and better industries which attracts higher value higher IQ people

If you want to find a cute software developer or banker come to London
If you want a call center worker who still complains about the pits closing then go to yorkshire

GreatApe

Zero_Sum wrote: »

Lack of well paid jobs.
Theres also a lot of ignorance & snobbiness from southerners towards the north
But if you have a half decent job, your quality of life is just so much better

Not really, London is actually cheaper to live in for most people than the north is

Sure homes cost more but London home owners have had negative housing costs for at least as long as I have been an adult. The cost of housing is both the interest on the mortgage but also the change in asset values. So while a Londoner might pay 5 x the interest on their house which cost 5 x as much, their housing cost was actually less because their house appreciated in value more than the northern house

And some 50% of Londoners own their own home so housing costs for them have been lower than the north

about 25% are in social flats/houses and they pay more or less nothing to live in London (something like £80-100 per week and most are on housing benefits anyway)

The only group that pays more are private renters. Which is about 25% of London housing stock. But even then many get a portion paid for via housing benefits. Many have no choice in the matter eg the huge number of students in London cant live in Yorkshire if their university is in zone 1 London.

Also the higher housing cost for private renters is often offset by simply living more dense in London. When I was in the north I rented a flat with a friend. The two of us shared bills. When I was in zone 1 London as a student I rented a flat with 3 other friends and the four of us shared bills. Overall cost was probably more or less the same. So the difference was not that housing cost more...it didn't...the difference was we had a little less space per person

So the idea that London costs more, is mostly not true
London costs nothing for owners in fact they made money living in London this is 50% of London
London costs the same for social renters which is about 25% of all homes in London
Private renters ~25% of London, they pay higher rents but many make up for this by living a little denser rather than actually paying more for their rent and household bills

GreatApe

Mistermeaner wrote: »

cheshire here; housing very affordable

Not as affordable as London

2009 Buy a house for £250,000
2019 Sell it for £500,000
Cost of interest paid on the mortgage £70,000
Cost of housing = NEGATIVE £180,000

So London housing cost -£18,000 a year

GreatApe

westernpromise wrote: »

So why doesn't anyone want to live there?

Housing in the country has more or less the same occupancy density of about 2.35 persons per home it does not vary much in any of the regions

The reason foreigners might opt to buy in London rather than Port Talbot are many. The main ones probably being heathrow is our hub. Lots of universities in London. The high end new builds are flats and some countries like China are 99% apartments so they just dont do houses. If buying for asset appreciation they look at the last 10-20 years in location x and London wins out. They might want their kids to live in the UK or rather London. There will be an existing community from their home nation.