Arranging Probate without solicitor

Legacy_user

Background

My partner's father is recently deceased, and there were 4 children named in the will as beneficiaries, the estate being split 4 ways. There is no property, and the estate is well below the inheritance tax threshold.

Despite never doing anything like this before, things are reasonably straightforward so far, The will names 2 executors, one is the deceased's brother, the other is a pub regular of his from 20 or so years ago, we have tracked him down, but he is unlikely to want to actually be an executor (as he hasn't had contact with the deceased for 20 years, and isn't a beneficiary in any way), we will of course ask, but the feeling of the family is, we would rather have the brother be the sole executor,

The brother is elderly, and whilst certainly of sound mind, doesn't really have the physical capacity to do the work of executing the will, so I am helping them with the day to day stuff, but keeping him very involved and explaining everything clearly. We did an estate valuation online and had the IHT accepted, I also started to go through the the probate application online,

My Questions:

(1) am I (or my partner) doing anything wrong by assisting the executor(s)?

(2) My main question: It was all going well, until we got to the number of executors, as there are two, the brother and the old acquaintance, we couldn't progress past this part:

Executors not applying for probate
Why isn’t XXXXXX XXXX applying for probate? This executor doesn’t want to apply now, and gives up the right to do so in the future (this is also known as renunciation, and the executor will need to fill in a form)

Do we just need to speak to XXXXXX XXXX and ask if he wants to be involved as an executor, or is he happy for the brother to continue as the sole executor, and get him to complete and sign (and get witnessed ) PA15 — Renunciation (Will)


Is there anything we need to be aware of that may catch us out if we go this route? Or once he agrees (if he agrees), get the form signed, and include it with the will, and carry on with the sole executor? Do we really need a solicitor? It feels like we don't, but wanted to hear other people's opinions and experiences,. (please, if you are a solicitor and respond, please declare your one for transparency!!!)

(3) My partner was her father's carer, we he looked after all the funeral arrangements, cancelled accounts, paid bills, put a stop on the bank account etc. As my partner was her father's carer, and was DWP Appointee and had an account in his name to sort out care, food and other stuff, this hasn't been frozen, as it wasn't in the deceased name, and the bank wouldn't close it. This has been very beneficial as we have been able to pay bills and settle estate stuff without needing to wait for probate, anything left over in this will be paid into the main account before it's shared out (all the other family members are aware of this and have no problems). Is there anything wrong doing this?

Tom99

1 - You don't need a solicitor. You can do everything for the executor, prepare forms and letters etc except sign for them.
If you and brother were in agreement he could appoint you as his attorney:
'E – Power of attorney: they have appointed or wish to appoint another person to act as their attorney to take a Grant of Representation on their behalf (You will also need to complete Section 5 of this application).
(Before you send off your application please read NOTE REASON E)'
Then it would be you to whom the grant was issued meaning you could act as it you were the executor.

2 - You could choose:
'C – Power reserved: they have chosen not to apply, but reserve the right to do so later.'
That would mean you need to speak to this person, agree they do not want to be involved and then you write to them notifying them you are applying for probate with their power reserved. Nothing needs to be signed by them.
Or go the reason D route, renunciation, using form PA15.

3 - I can't see any problem but would keep meticulous accounts of all income and expenditure.

badger09

If I were the 2nd executor in this situation I would definitely choose to Renounce, rather than Reserve Powers as this would absolve me from any potential liability, should any arise.

One thing that puzzles me about the PA15 is the reference at point 6: to

"one of the executors and residuary legatee and devisee in trust" (my bold)

Clearly the person in OPs case is not a residuary legatee. Could someone with greater knowledge than mine (not difficult:o) please explain this inclusion.

Keep_pedalling

If the estate consists of nothing but cash and personal effects, you may not even need to apply for probate, as long as the amounts held are below the banks limits in releasing money without probate.

System

Thanks to all that replied, most helpful and gives some reassurance that we haven't gone astray. Sadly the estate is over the limit that requires probate (Estate is about £58k), so we do need to apply for probate.

Going to speak to the 2nd Executor, it's now his choice, but am armed with some information regards to Renounce or Reserve Powers, I can explain it in a way that explain things and I suspect he will pick the option that is least hassle (and risk) for him, least hassle for the family.

If anyone has anything extra to add, please feel free to carry this thread :T

lisyloo

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

If the estate consists of nothing but cash and personal effects, you may not even need to apply for probate, as long as the amounts held are below the banks limits in releasing money without probate.

Any idea of what those amounts are? I think I saw £50k somewhere.
Can money be split to avoid probate?

Keep_pedalling

lisyloo wrote: »

Any idea of what those amounts are? I think I saw £50k somewhere.
Can money be split to avoid probate?

Each bank sets their own limits. Barclays is £30, Lloyd’s £50k, in this case probate will be required if the £58k is all in a single bank, if split across several then they might be able to avoid that.

badger09

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

Each bank sets their own limits. Barclays is £30, Lloyd’s £50k, in this case probate will be required if the £58k is all in a single bank, if split across several then they might be able to avoid that.

I'd advise OP to consult each bank's dedicated Bereavement Team. They will tell him their limit below which Probate is not needed. In my recent experience they were all helpful, knowledgeable and efficient.

System

Got probate granted a couple of weeks ago. Was a doddle.

The only thing that caught us out, was the online probate application said we could upload a copy of the death certificate, which we did, but they seem to have moved the goalposts and now insist on a posted certified copy. Not sure if they fixed the website, so beware.