Tenancy End Dispute by LL over Exact Date

jjenna

Hello! I am a tenant.:)

My question is regarding ending a tenancy and if our notice is valid or not? I am in the UK. Not sure if this a UK based site or laws change around the world.

So we wanted to move and gave our LL a tenancy ending notice starting on 10th April, we did mention that we will confirm the exact date after a week (which we couldn't due to non-confirmation from the next property). She replied to this and said thanks and she will do an inspection. We gave her a date to inspect the property to which she said she will come but didn't and it carried on like this for like 3 weeks. Once we found a property that we liked we asked her to kindly respond to the email of prospective LA, where she had to attest for us etc., which she responded to like after a week (delaying our letting process further). She knew for like two weeks that we were moving and we had found a suitable property but when we told her we would be moving on 14th May and give her possession on 14th, she said our notice started then (on 14th) and we will serve it till 14th June (not May, hence adding one more month to the notice period which we had already mentioned in our notice as stated above). We also said we will be paying any extra rents (also incurred because she didn't respond to the letting agency as they couldn't start the process without confirmation from previous LL). She is now saying she will deduct one whole month's rent + the extra days we spent in the property which we evacuated one month + 5 days after we gave her the notice which she had responded to and confirmed receipt of. All this she is saying in reference to the fact we didn't give her an exact date of moving.:(



Further to add, we were on an AST (that ended in Sep 2016). The contract states SPT at the end of fixed term. *The LL has now asked us to meet her half-way and pay her half month's rent + the additional days we were at the property.



What's our standing in this whole situation and how should we go about it? Deposit is protected by DPS of course and we want to create a dispute but want to see how strong of a case it is in our favor. Thanks in anticipation and please be patient as it's my first post here



Kind Regards

SpiderLegs

Well the first question is when do your rental periods run from/to?

jjenna

Hello
The rental period is from 10th of every month. But I thought SPT was flexible in accordance to the dates?

Comms69

jjenna wrote: »

Hello
The rental period is from 10th of every month. But I thought SPT was flexible in accordance to the dates?

No SPT is FIXED with the dates.


So notice on the 10th would end on the 9th.

HampshireH

It really does sound like you gave incorrect wishy washy notice and expected your landlord to accept any date from you at relatively short notice.

A notice period specifies the date you will leave. 4 weeks notice meant you intended to leave 9th may.

Sound like you outstayed your notice period and moved into the next rental month.

G_M

have you read


* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

G_M

jjenna wrote: »

My question is regarding ending a tenancy and if our notice is valid or not? I am in the UK. Not sure if this a UK based site or laws change around the world.
More complex than that! England is different to Scotland is different to N Ireland. Where are you?

So we wanted to move and gave our LL a tenancy ending notice starting on 10th April, we did mention that we will confirm the exact date after a week
Then you have not given notice. Notice must include a specific, unambigous, end-date.

...... We gave her a date to inspect the property
a bit presumptuous. It is for the LL to decide if/when to inspect

to which she said she will come but didn't and it carried on like this for like 3 weeks. Once we found a property that we liked we asked her to kindly respond to the email of prospective LA, where she had to attest for us etc.,
she did not 'have to' do anything.

which she responded to like after a week (delaying our letting process further). She knew for like two weeks that we were moving
How? You do not seem to have given proper notice yet.

and we had found a suitable property but when we told her we would be moving on 14th May
on what date did you tell her this? Did you do it properly in writing?

and give her possession on 14th, she said our notice started then (on 14th) and we will serve it till 14th June (not May, hence adding one more month to the notice period which we had already mentioned in our notice as stated above).
she appears to be correct.

We also said we will be paying any extra rents (also incurred because she didn't respond to the letting agency as they couldn't start the process without confirmation from previous LL).
you will need to pay rent till your tenancy ends, which appears to be on 14th June.

She is now saying she will deduct one whole month's rent + the extra days we spent in the property which we evacuated one month + 5 days after we gave her the notice which she had responded to and confirmed receipt of.
sorry. I or you may have missed something.Please confirm
* the exact date on which you served proper notice
* the exact expiry date of your notice as specified in your notice
* how you served it (letter? email?)
* how your tenancy agreement specifies notice is to be served

All this she is saying in reference to the fact we didn't give her an exact date of moving.:(
She is correct.

Further to add, we were on an AST (that ended in Sep 2016).
No. It did not. It became a Statutory Periodic AST.

The contract states SPT at the end of fixed term. *The LL has now asked us to meet her half-way and pay her half month's rent + the additional days we were at the property.
she is being very generous!

What's our standing in this whole situation and how should we go about it?

You do not have a legal leg to stand on. Any offer of compromise she offers - grab it and be grateful.

jjenna

G_M wrote: »

You do not have a legal leg to stand on. Any offer of compromise she offers - grab it and be grateful.

“ My question is regarding ending a tenancy and if our notice is valid or not? I am in the UK. Not sure if this a UK based site or laws change around the world.
More complex than that! England is different to Scotland is different to N Ireland. Where are you?
England


So we wanted to move and gave our LL a tenancy ending notice starting on 10th April, we did mention that we will confirm the exact date after a week
Then you have not given notice. Notice must include a specific, unambigous, end-date.
Not necessarily, not on a single site (even gov.uk) have I read that I have to give a date.

...... We gave her a date to inspect the property
a bit presumptuous. It is for the LL to decide if/when to inspect
What if she asked for a date to inspect? She cancelled three inspections in one week.

to which she said she will come but didn't and it carried on like this for like 3 weeks. Once we found a property that we liked we asked her to kindly respond to the email of prospective LA, where she had to attest for us etc.,
she did not 'have to' do anything.

Isn't she required to give a reference? as far as I am aware it is my right to be given a reference for being a tenant to her for the last 3.5 years.


which she responded to like after a week (delaying our letting process further). She knew for like two weeks that we were moving
How? You do not seem to have given proper notice yet.
Yes I did, see above.

and we had found a suitable property but when we told her we would be moving on 14th May
on what date did you tell her this? Did you do it properly in writing?
We told her in writing that we would be moving after a month. See above. Sent on 15th.

and give her possession on 14th, she said our notice started then (on 14th) and we will serve it till 14th June (not May, hence adding one more month to the notice period which we had already mentioned in our notice as stated above).
she appears to be correct.
:money:

We also said we will be paying any extra rents (also incurred because she didn't respond to the letting agency as they couldn't start the process without confirmation from previous LL).
you will need to pay rent till your tenancy ends, which appears to be on 14th June.
We still need to figure that out.

She is now saying she will deduct one whole month's rent + the extra days we spent in the property which we evacuated one month + 5 days after we gave her the notice which she had responded to and confirmed receipt of.
sorry. I or you may have missed something.Please confirm
* the exact date on which you served proper notice - 14th April
* the exact expiry date of your notice as specified in your notice (not required by law and not specified in contract)
* how you served it (letter? email?) email (digitally signed) as was all previous correspondence
* how your tenancy agreement specifies notice is to be served (one month prior to leaving property)

All this she is saying in reference to the fact we didn't give her an exact date of moving.:(
She is correct.

Please read above

Further to add, we were on an AST (that ended in Sep 2016).
No. It did not. It became a Statutory Periodic AST.
:money:

The contract states SPT at the end of fixed term. *The LL has now asked us to meet her half-way and pay her half month's rent + the additional days we were at the property.
she is being very generous!
Great

HampshireH

Rather than arguing with one of the most knowledgeable people on the forum why not heed the advice. Did you read the link provided?

You said you gave notice on 10th april. Therefore this expired 1 month last 9th may. The date you should have left. This is a legal notice period. Therefore this is the end date. Not 5 days later when you actually moved out. This is supported by case law and info is in the link you were given.

Are you now saying you gave a different notice on 14th of april to expire on 13th May but that you still didnt move out till the 14th? This would be incorrect and not valid because you didn't serve it to coincide with a rental period (you have told us this is from the 10th of one month to the 9th of the next which you did initially)

Guidence is very clear on 1 month notice & you should state an end date.

The end date on your notice

You can give the notice at any time.

To be valid, a tenant's notice must end on the first or last day of a tenancy period.

This won’t always be the same as the date you pay rent.

Monthly tenancies

For example, if your tenancy began on 15 May:

the first day of the tenancy period is the 15th the last day of the tenancy period is the 14th

Your notice would need to end on the 14th or 15th of the month.

How to give notice

You must give notice in writing to your landlord or their agent.

It should include:

your name and address landlord or agent's name and address the date your notice period ends

Check your last written agreement to see where to send your notice.

Don't send it by email unless your contract says you

from shelter

baldelectrician

You could contact the landlord and suggest as you are being required to pay rent for a longer period you will pick up the keys and hand back them on the finish date she wishes to have.

This may delay her plans to have work carried out / advertise etc.

This may make her compromise a bit

Comms69

jjenna wrote: »

“ My question is regarding ending a tenancy and if our notice is valid or not? I am in the UK. Not sure if this a UK based site or laws change around the world.
More complex than that! England is different to Scotland is different to N Ireland. Where are you?
England


So we wanted to move and gave our LL a tenancy ending notice starting on 10th April, we did mention that we will confirm the exact date after a week
Then you have not given notice. Notice must include a specific, unambigous, end-date.
Not necessarily, not on a single site (even gov.uk) have I read that I have to give a date. - .gov.uk is an interpretation of a civil servant, you should not ever rely on it for accurate information

...... We gave her a date to inspect the property
a bit presumptuous. It is for the LL to decide if/when to inspect
What if she asked for a date to inspect? She cancelled three inspections in one week. - as long as she gives you correct notice she can inspect. You can deny her access by changing the locks if you wish - no idea why you would in such circumstances

to which she said she will come but didn't and it carried on like this for like 3 weeks. Once we found a property that we liked we asked her to kindly respond to the email of prospective LA, where she had to attest for us etc.,
she did not 'have to' do anything.

Isn't she required to give a reference? as far as I am aware it is my right to be given a reference for being a tenant to her for the last 3.5 years. - no. No-one is obliged to give you a reference (except some protected jobs). You are not entitled to anything


which she responded to like after a week (delaying our letting process further). She knew for like two weeks that we were moving
How? You do not seem to have given proper notice yet.
Yes I did, see above. - no you haven't. You said we are leaving, i'll let you know when.

and we had found a suitable property but when we told her we would be moving on 14th May
on what date did you tell her this? Did you do it properly in writing?
We told her in writing that we would be moving after a month. See above. Sent on 15th. - Which is too late. You owe for full tenancy periods

and give her possession on 14th, she said our notice started then (on 14th) and we will serve it till 14th June (not May, hence adding one more month to the notice period which we had already mentioned in our notice as stated above).
she appears to be correct.
:money:

We also said we will be paying any extra rents (also incurred because she didn't respond to the letting agency as they couldn't start the process without confirmation from previous LL).
you will need to pay rent till your tenancy ends, which appears to be on 14th June.
We still need to figure that out. - well actually you need to pay rent until the 9th of the following month (assuming the 10th-9th you mentioned earlier is correct)

She is now saying she will deduct one whole month's rent + the extra days we spent in the property which we evacuated one month + 5 days after we gave her the notice which she had responded to and confirmed receipt of.
sorry. I or you may have missed something.Please confirm
* the exact date on which you served proper notice - 14th April
* the exact expiry date of your notice as specified in your notice (not required by law and not specified in contract) - yes it is required
* how you served it (letter? email?) email (digitally signed) as was all previous correspondence - is email allowed in your tenancy agreement. Im guessing not. So no notice has ever been served
* how your tenancy agreement specifies notice is to be served (one month prior to leaving property) - so not 1 month prior to the tenancy period

All this she is saying in reference to the fact we didn't give her an exact date of moving.:(
She is correct.

Please read above - no. you are incorrect

Further to add, we were on an AST (that ended in Sep 2016).
No. It did not. It became a Statutory Periodic AST.
:money:

The contract states SPT at the end of fixed term. *The LL has now asked us to meet her half-way and pay her half month's rent + the additional days we were at the property.
she is being very generous!
Great

Please take the advice offered.


At the minute, if the LL gets legal advice I suspect she can just keep charging you rent, indefintely