Can cleaner claim back under payments if they were unclear?

Jennyfreckles

We’ve been having the house cleaned fortnightly by a small cleaning business (owner and a few cleaners) for a few years, in our old house and since downsizing to a smaller one. They clean quite well but very patchy on communication, mostly by text message.

- I had a text at 10pm tonight saying she’d just noticed I’ve only been paying for one clean per month, not two.
- I looked back through our text records (the only communication from the owner), and found a message in Feb 2018 saying ‘the new regular payment is £42’ (reduced when we moved house) and I’d replied saying I’d set that standing order up. That’s the last mention of payments. Standing order has been regularly going each month since then.
- Looking back, I see she must have meant £42 per *clean*, and I took it as £42 per *month*.
- She hasn’t noticed this error in 16 months
- I literally never get anything in writing, no bills, receipts, contracts.

It’s going to be nearly £700 for the difference over 16 months, which I can’t afford right now, my husband is starting a new business so we are on one income and savings. Can she charge that back from me, given she hadn’t clearly set out the charges?

Socajam

Did you really think that someone would clean your house for £42 per *month*, come one. Would you do it?
I think you owe the money.
I would sit down with them and work out a payment plan until the debt is paid off.

theonlywayisup

Jennyfreckles wrote: »

We’ve been having the house cleaned fortnightly by a small cleaning business (owner and a few cleaners) for a few years, in our old house and since downsizing to a smaller one. They clean quite well but very patchy on communication, mostly by text message.

- I had a text at 10pm tonight saying she’d just noticed I’ve only been paying for one clean per month, not two.
- I looked back through our text records (the only communication from the owner), and found a message in Feb 2018 saying ‘the new regular payment is £42’ (reduced when we moved house) and I’d replied saying I’d set that standing order up. That’s the last mention of payments. Standing order has been regularly going each month since then.
- Looking back, I see she must have meant £42 per *clean*, and I took it as £42 per *month*.
- She hasn’t noticed this error in 16 months
- I literally never get anything in writing, no bills, receipts, contracts.

It’s going to be nearly £700 for the difference over 16 months, which I can’t afford right now, my husband is starting a new business so we are on one income and savings. Can she charge that back from me, given she hadn’t clearly set out the charges?

What makes you say that? Are you saying you misunderstood but now reading back it is clear what was agreed?

With only one side of the viewpoint it is impossible to say whether the charges were correctly set out and therefore not easy to guess as to who is in the wrong/right.

At 16 months, the cleaner/firm are well within the 6 years time limit afforded to them.

Could you counter offer or perhaps come up with a repayment plan?

Kim_kim

Socajam wrote: »

Did you really think that someone would clean your house for £42 per *month*, come one. Would you do it?
I think you owe the money.
I would sit down with them and work out a payment plan until the debt is paid off.

If it’s two cleans a month then yes that would be reasonable.

There’s been plenty of mse polls and the average seems to be about 2 hours & £12 ph.
£42 for 2 cleans isn’t so far from that.
£42 for one clean would be expensive unless they were there 3.5 or 4 hours.

Doozergirl

Kim_kim wrote: »

If it’s two cleans a month then yes that would be reasonable.

There’s been plenty of mse polls and the average seems to be about 2 hours & £12 ph.
£42 for 2 cleans isn’t so far from that.
£42 for one clean would be expensive unless they were there 3.5 or 4 hours.

None of those polls said what people pay a month, did they? No one quotes 'per month' and no one shares what they pay 'per month'. I have a cleaner at £12 for 3.5 to 4 hours every week. I have no idea what it costs me a month without a calculator.

There aren't even four weeks in a month; there are 13 four weekly cycles in a year. That mean the OP, at 26 cleans a year thinks they're getting their house cleaned for £19.384654 a time. A somewhat unusual amount.

The OP has misunderstood and the cleaner is bad at accounting but it doesn't mean they don't owe it. I don't even understand how the OP was paying the correct amount in the last house if they think they're paying even less now.

A 'regular' payment in this circumstance means 'for the regular job', which will be a set number of hours per fortnight. We often have times where we'll ask cleaners to do more than what is 'regular' because we've had a clear out, or want the windows doing, or had a party.

The cleaner did not say 'per month'. That was an interpretation by the OP. Most of us would equate a payment with a visit, and if we weren't sure, we'd ask.

KatrinaWaves

When they cleaned your old house did they price per month or per clean? How did you pay previously, per month or per clean?

How much did they charge per clean for your older larger house? If it’s clearly your error then gob owe the money hands down.

DoaM

KatrinaWaves wrote: »

When they cleaned your old house did they price per month or per clean? How did you pay previously, per month or per clean?

How much did they charge per clean for your older larger house?

Those are the key questions.

If OP was previously paying by standing order, and is currently paying by standing order (with a changed amount) then the OP clearly had an agreed arrangement with the cleaning company to pay "per month". As a standing order is designed to be for a recurring, fixed amount then the contract must have been on a monthly basis and not "per clean".

So ... if the previous monthly amount was, say, £60 and the new amount for the smaller property is £42 then it would be logical to assume that £42 was the monthly amount. If it was previously, say, £100 then a reduction to £42 per month would seem erroneous unless the downsize was from a 5-bed, 2-3 floor house to a 2-bed bungalow.

Aylesbury_Duck

The short answer is yes, they can try and claim the difference from you. If they took you to court, it would be down to the balance of the evidence presented and from your account, your position doesn't look a strong one.

unholyangel

How did you enter the contract? If it was a distance sale or off premises then they need to tell you the total cost per billing period or if its charged at a fixed rate then they need to tell you the monthly cost.

If it was on premises then it gets more complicated. Were you ever previously given rates on an hourly or per clean basis? Or has it always been them just telling you the monthly cost?

warby68

Poor 'sums' on both your parts but it seems fairly clear the money is owed.

What is missing from your post is the basis of the charges. Cleaning is usually per hour. I find it hard to believe that you didn't know roughly what that would be from the outset to the extent that you were wrong by 50%.

Also missing is the basis of payment for the previous house which again should probably have prompted a sense check.



If you now have to pay 'double' can you afford that given the circumstances you describe ? Hopefully you won't drop them altogether and make it a fight.

You've laid quite a bit of emphasis on poor communication - in this case I don't think you can use that to wriggle too much. The little bit of communication there was said 'regular' which was fortnightly to you. Unless you paid monthly before, but again back to a huge drop in cost which wouldn't have made sense.

I think you should pay but the owner should offer some form of discount to recognize the late call, the lack of proper billing and as incentive for you to pay up. So perhaps that could be the basis for a negotiation.

It might be a lot of money to you, but its equally if not more significant in a small cleaning business. I doubt the book keeping is poor because they're loaded and not bothered, more like busy and out making a living most of the time.

Takmon

Jennyfreckles wrote: »

We’ve been having the house cleaned fortnightly by a small cleaning business (owner and a few cleaners) for a few years, in our old house and since downsizing to a smaller one. They clean quite well but very patchy on communication, mostly by text message.

- I had a text at 10pm tonight saying she’d just noticed I’ve only been paying for one clean per month, not two.
- I looked back through our text records (the only communication from the owner), and found a message in Feb 2018 saying ‘the new regular payment is £42’ (reduced when we moved house) and I’d replied saying I’d set that standing order up. That’s the last mention of payments. Standing order has been regularly going each month since then.
- Looking back, I see she must have meant £42 per *clean*, and I took it as £42 per *month*.
- She hasn’t noticed this error in 16 months
- I literally never get anything in writing, no bills, receipts, contracts.

It’s going to be nearly £700 for the difference over 16 months, which I can’t afford right now, my husband is starting a new business so we are on one income and savings. Can she charge that back from me, given she hadn’t clearly set out the charges?

If you will struggle to pay the £700 that you owe then it sounds like your finances are too tight to afford a cleaner. Pay what you owe and stop using their services until you can afford it again.