Private rental: fair increase and what to do to negotiate?

neilbaldwin70

Hello all,
We have been renting a property for nearly 8 years. In that time we've had irregular modest increases in the rent. Recent discussions and actions by the letting agent (centered around them 'inspecting the property for valuation') we think a large rent increase may be in the pipeline. One issue that is bugging us is that we believe that one reason they might be considering hiking up the rent charge is that over the years we've put a ton of our own time and money into making the property nice (it's a period property) and now they're looking at it in it's current state thinking that that was the state it was in when we first rented it. Arguably they probably could put it back on the rental market as it is today and get more for it than we're paying. Another factor in their decision (and they have been a little explicit about this) is that two years ago they replaced a lot of old rotten wooden windows with PVC double glazed units and we also had to have some work done to treat a rising damp issue - therefore looking at increasing our rent to sort of cover the cost of that work.

If they attempt to hike up our rent by a large amount as we suspect, we were wondering if we have any legal (or moral, if that's worth anything!) ground to refuse or negotiate? Are there any official bodies that we could contact to appeal? Obviously, ultimately, if we refused to agree they could evict us but could that be construed as prejudiced or constructive eviction? Looking for angles to approach this. We love living here and wouldn't want to leave but a large increase would see us have to reconsider.

Thanks.

anselld

Acceptable rent increase is based purely on the market rate for similar properties in the area. Any history of contributions from your side or trying to recover expense from their side are irrelevant.

There are some protections depending on your tenancy contract (assuming England) ...
https://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/rents/market_rents/rent_increases/section_13_rent_increases

Valuation is not needed for rent increase, so they may not be telling you the whole story. They may be looking to sell or simply to re-mortgage.

Fire_Fox

Welcome to MSE.

Your contract is with the landlord not the letting agent. It would be the landlord increasing the rent, not the letting agent. However the landlord may be considering selling up. Do you have your landlord's contact details?

Do you know what a reasonable monthly rent is for a similar property in the local area is? It would be worth researching the market.

You don't have the right to refuse to pay unless the notice is incorrect, but you can certainly try to negotiate with the landlord.

What you have in your favour is eight years of continuous prompt payments, and that you have taken good care of the property. A smart landlord would want to retain you as long-term tenants even if he gets a little less rent than the market average each month.

If you default on the rent and your landlord takes steps to evict you, you would be liable for all their costs. You also will not get a reference.

Do have a look through the Tenancies in Eng/ Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants 'sticky' at the top of the main page of this board.

HTH.

tom9980

When a business has increased costs they need to increase revenue, i suspect the lettings fee ban is leading to agents especially seeking to maximise rental returns to make up the shortfall in their lost revenue.

These are the unintended consequences many have warned about, and long term will likely cost tenants more. Now i as a Landlord (who does not use an agent) have only ever charged a small referencing fee (£50 max) but i have been able to increase rents for new tenants to compensate for the extra costs of more regulation at a rate i never thought possible a few years ago, and i am still one of the best value around. I am still getting lots of tenants desperate for a move make enquiries who i fear will really struggle to find a new home if things continue in this way much longer. By that i mean Landlords being blamed for a housing crisis caused by a system that has been failing all of us since the 1980's.

All you can do is make your case about being a long term paying tenant who does their own maintenance and hope you can come to agreeable terms. Be careful to compare your current home to other potential properties to get a good idea if you are being offered a fair deal or not.

AndyTails

What is your current tenancy; fixed term, contractual periodic or statutory periodic?

If you're in a fixed term, the landlord has no mechanism to increase the rent.

If you're in a contractual periodic then you're bound by the rules of that contract (probably. Assuming they're legal and enforceable). I've not read them.

If you're in a statutory periodic (i.e. the fixed term ended and you just continued to pay the same monthly rent), then the landlord's normal way to increase the rent is to offer you a new contract at the higher amount. You can sign, or refuse. If you refuse he can either go down the route of getting the rent assessed (i.e. he pays someone from the council to come and say what the rent should be; you'd then have to pay it) or evict you with Section 21 and find a new tenant who will pay the amount he wants.

A sensible landlord would rather keep a long term tenant who pays a reasonable rent amount on time and looks after the property, than go through the cost and hassle of evicting them and paying an agent to find a new tenant (who may not pay as promptly or look after the property as well) just to maximise the monthly rent. Of course, not all landlords and sensible, and it depends on the difference between what you're paying and the market rate.

If your landlord suggest a new rent and you don't like it, just negotiate. Say "We wouldn't like to pay the £xxx you're asking for, however we believe that £yyy would be fair to both of us and we'd be happy to continue our long term tenancy on that basis". £yyy should be based on what you think the property is worth / how much you'd have to pay elsewhere (use e.g. rightmove to work this out), but maybe reduced slightly to take account of your advantage that the landlord doesn't want you gone.

Cakeguts

You say you have had modest rent increases in the last 8 years but what you need to research is if your property is significantly cheaper to rent than another one similar which could be put on the rental market now. If it is then most landlords would want to bring it more inline with current rents.



They won't take into account any money that you have spent on it because that was your choice to spend it.



If the landlord is sensible they won't give you a massive increase.


What I can't understand it the bit about valution. You don't need to do that to increase the rent. It sounds more like a valuation for sale.

G_M

Fixed term tenancy? If yes, start/end dates and does the contract include any clauses relating to rent increases? Please quote.


Contractual Periodic Tenancy? Does the contract include any clauses relating to rent increases? Please quote. If not, have you received a S13 Notice?


Statutory Periodic Tenancy? Have you received a S13 Notice?


To understand the differences, read



* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

* Rent increases: when & how can rent be increased?

neilbaldwin70

Thanks all for the input.


We're on a rolling tenancy now with 2 months notice period. Finding a similar property to rent (as a comparison) will be tricky as it's a period property belonging to a country estate. That's also the reason that we don't think it's a valuation to sell as the property (and others) have been in the same family for a long, long time.


I guess the frustrating bit for us is that they're probably now going to base the market rentable value on the state the property is in today which is vastly different from when we moved into it. Effectively we paid with our own time and money to 'upgrade' it and now we're going to get charged more rent, effectively paying twice!


My point about the irregular modest increases is that it would seem unfair of the agent (who are, frankly, pretty useless) to keep on top of regular rental reviews and then lump us with one massive increase because the rentable value has increased over the last few years (arguably). If they'd increased it gradually and regularly it wouldn't sting quite as much.

Interestingly we just looked at a property on the same (modern) estate where we used to rent (before current place) and the rental is largely the same as when we left it 8 years ago (it's about £10 more expensive). I know that's hardly scientific but it shows that overall rental prices have not increased that much in those years (it's in roughly the same area though a very different type of property).

Anyway, nothing has happened as of yet. They do tend to move slowly which I guess is handy for us if and when something moves.

Once again, thanks all for the input - much appreciated. I'll come back here and update if there are any developments.

diggingdude

Sadly spending any of your own money on someone else's property is purely for your enjoyment alone. Hopefully you have had fun doing the work and living there. In future make sure the landlord addresses any necessary repairs etc to save yourself some money

Cakeguts

They could be doing valuations for the country estate to be sold.

G_M

neilbaldwin70 wrote: »

We're on a rolling tenancy now with 2 months notice period. .

Sigh!......


Contractual Periodic Tenancy? Does the contract include any clauses relating to rent increases? Please quote. If not, have you received a S13 Notice?

Statutory Periodic Tenancy? Have you received a S13 Notice?

To understand the differences, read

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

* Rent increases: when & how can rent be increased?