PCN received for “parking” - didn’t leave car

jonnyk

Hi,

I have looked through the sticky newbie thread, but would really appreciate clarification if my proposed course of action is correct...

I received a letter today from ParkWatch dated 27 May 19 for the incident on 4 May 19, stating that The driver had “No Permit”. There is no reference to duration spent, just the incident occurred at a specific minute of the day.

This is a lease car.

Have I received this letter too late - ie outside of a 14 day window per POFA2012? I think I may have so this would completely void the PCN?

As this is a permit related incident rather than ticket, does the normal template still apply? Do I still email the usual template:

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,”


Would really appreciate some early guidance.

Kind regards,

J

The_Deep

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Quentin

Read up on the section in the newbies faq thread on lease/ hire cars and follow the advice there to ensure the lease company don't get involved

(The driver was parked)

Edit your post to remove details of who was driving

The ppcs monitor this forum and can use posts in your thread against you

jonnyk

Hi, thanks, I will definitely complain to my MP. In the meantime should I appeal with standard template, or is there grounds for a different route given timings of the letter vs incident, that The driver wasn’t actually parked, and it wasn’t for a permit rather than ticket based car park??

jonnyk

Quentin wrote: »

Read up on the section in the newbies faq thread on lease/ hire cars and follow the advice there to ensure the lease company don't get involved

Hi I read that but thought as I have the PCN they are out of the loop and I wouldn’t expect their involvement?

Fruitcake

jonnyk wrote: »

Hi, thanks, I will definitely complain to my MP. In the meantime should I appeal with standard template, or is there grounds for a different route given timings of the letter vs incident, that I wasn’t actually parked, and it wasn’t for a permit rather than ticket based car park??

You still haven't edited your post. You should do this before you do anything else. Only ever refer to The Driver, The Keeper, or The Hirer/Lessee, who are different people.

Follow the advice given by Quentin. Do not use the standard template. Parking companies seem to find it impossible to deal properly with hire/lease cars and invariable fail to follow the strict requirements of the PoFA.

Coupon-mad

You need to appeal using one of the 3 linked version appeals at the bottom of the NEWBIES first post, in the section all about lease cars. The links there lead to appeals by Edna Basher (obviously do NOT use the one written as a company fleet manager!).

There is no 14 day rule for lease car cases where they wrote to the lease firm first. However, they will have tripped up by not including the required documents with your PCN, hence why you need the specific appeal to tell them to get lost.

Please don't copy it here and ask if it's the right one...can't stand that!

jonnyk

Ok, thanks! I have now edited earlier posts to reference “the driver”. I have seen variations of the template by Edna Basher that I will amend as appropriate. Please could I just get advice on whether it is advantageous to hold fire before appealing or if i can just get the ball rolling now? Appreciate help that has been posted.

Fruitcake

More editing is needed! Who never left the car?

It's irrelevant anyway since the car was parked, so you would be better removing that part completely.

There is no advantage in hanging around in your situation.

jonnyk

Got it! Removed that paragraph and will get the appeal started ASAP. Thanks again, will update thread with progress

jonnyk

Hi,

My first appeal letter was sent a week ago which was adopted from a template found relating to lease cars:

"Reference: Parking Charge Notice XXXXXX : Vehicle Registration XXXXXX

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by Park Watch as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Park Watch’s Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Given that Park Watch has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice."

I have today received a fairly standard letter letter that rejects the appeal, so I am now at POPLA stage. However I have looked through the templates I can see in the newbies sticky and also elsewhere in the forum, and it is not obvious to me how I frame the letter with regards to this being a lease car.

Any advice gratefully received