Woodford Concerns

hamishdog

I have this fund in my pension, about 4%.
As my pension is well diversified I am not too bothered, more annoyed that my IFA did not see the suspension or the lack performance.
A few questions

• What is anyone's guess what this fund will be worth when the suspension is lifted? I assume if you could be bothered to value all the current investments you could work this out.
• Will there be a mad dash to get money out, how will "system" cope with a mad scramble?
• If you want to re balance how many people will be buying this fund - not too sure if I am joking?
• Will it ever recover?

Moe_The_Bartender

hamishdog wrote: »

A few questions

• What is anyone's guess what this fund will be worth when the suspension is lifted? I assume if you could be bothered to value all the current investments you could work this out.
• Will there be a mad dash to get money out, how will "system" cope with a mad scramble?
• If you want to re balance how many people will be buying this fund - not too sure if I am joking?
• Will it ever recover?

The current investments are no longer being disclosed so even if they remained unchanged, which they won’t, you couldn’t value them. There's certain to be a rush for the door when or if suspension is lifted and because Woodford is likely to be still stuck with unlisted stocks, I doubt that suspension will be lifted as early as December.

Why would anyone buy the fund when there are so many similar alternatives when you strip out the rubbish? Woodford is toast.

dividendhero

hamishdog wrote: »

#

• What is anyone's guess what this fund will be worth when the suspension is lifted? I assume if you could be bothered to value all the current investments you could work this out.
• Will there be a mad dash to get money out, how will "system" cope with a mad scramble?
• If you want to re balance how many people will be buying this fund - not too sure if I am joking?
• Will it ever recover?

My guess
1 - 50p in the £1 when it gets unsuspended next year
2- Yes there'll be a dash for the exits
3 - Won't touch it, Woodford is the investment equivelent of Chernobyl. Why would anyone touch it when there's safer funds around?
4 - No, see above

itwasntme001

dividendhero wrote: »

My guess
1 - 50p in the £1 when it gets unsuspended next year
2- Yes there'll be a dash for the exits
3 - Won't touch it, Woodford is the investment equivelent of Chernobyl. Why would anyone touch it when there's safer funds around?
4 - No, see above

50% of the current price?

bowlhead99

gadgetmind wrote: »

This is worth a read. Note it was written in March 2018 when Woodford was struggling but hadn't yet totally blown it.

https://moneyweek.com/485293/the-star-fund-managers-who-fell-to-earth/

You do take a leap of faith with high-conviction fund managers. For example in the last paragraph of the article they mention a couple of investment trusts. Since the article was written 15 months ago, FGT is up about 25% while ARR is down about 10% (just looking at share price, not including divs). Both have a high conviction strategy for investing in UK listed stocks - ARR higher than FGT, but their picks worked out rather less well (in that short time period).

itwasntme001

Does anyone know if the woodford equity INC (not ACC) fund actually paid any dividends? I bought this fund in an ISA back in 2016 and sold last year for a small loss. However looking at the transaction history on the broker page i cant seem to see any dividends paid from the woodford fund. Maybe the dividends were fully used to pay the fund management fee? I should know but i really cant remember!

bowlhead99

itwasntme001 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the woodford equity INC (not ACC) fund actually paid any dividends? I bought this fund in an ISA back in 2016 and sold last year for a small loss. However looking at the transaction history on the broker page i cant seem to see any dividends paid from the woodford fund. Maybe the dividends were fully used to pay the fund management fee? I should know but i really cant remember!

The money won't have been used to pay the fund management fee, because the dividends are paid out of the fund after all the management fee has been paid by the fund for the relevant period. But feasibly you might have spent some of the dividend income paying your ISA investment platform management fees.

With many brokers the dividend payments are not on the 'transaction history' page because you are not doing a purchase transaction or a sales transaction. The income should be visible in your 'cash account' though (the income part of your cash account, if the broker splits between income and capital as some do).

My mum has a few thousand pounds worth of WEIF (Inc version) in her ISA and did receive quarterly dividends over that time period. You can see the history for all the share classes at https://woodfordfunds.com/funds/weif/income-history/

itwasntme001

bowlhead99 wrote: »

The money won't have been used to pay the fund management fee, because the dividends are paid out of the fund after all the management fee has been paid by the fund for the relevant period. But feasibly you might have spent some of the dividend income paying your ISA investment platform management fees.

With many brokers the dividend payments are not on the 'transaction history' page because you are not doing a purchase transaction or a sales transaction. The income should be visible in your 'cash account' though (the income part of your cash account, if the broker splits between income and capital as some do).

My mum has a few thousand pounds worth of WEIF (Inc version) in her ISA and did receive quarterly dividends over that time period. You can see the history for all the share classes at https://woodfordfunds.com/funds/weif/income-history/

Thanks Bowlhead. No the dividends were certainly not used to pay the broker fee (the dividend amount is multiples of the broker fee). Also there are a couple of other income funds that all do show dividends being received in the transaction history. The broker is interactive investor.


So still confusing why the dividends do not show up in the history.

itwasntme001

If it helps it is the C (inc) class of the fund. It shows in the transaction history that the fund was bought in 2016 and the description being "CF WOOD EQ INC C Del....". But no dividends received for this fund ever since i bought until it was sold in 2018.

LHW99

The broker is interactive investor.

Query it with them, if you get a nonsense reply, keep asking. I have had odd dividends missing, and then paid twice in one month, dividends paid late and a few other things. They have been better lately, but not absolutely perfect!