Recovery From Estates

jolly_jane

My dad died in July last year aged 80. He didn't leave a will and had no property. I (his daughter) became the executor. I put his death in the Gazette and his local paper and used the 'tell us once' service. I applied for Letters of Administration and Probate. I had a letter from the DWP on 7th of august requesting repayment of an overpayment of attendance allowance of £85 which I paid.

In the bank he had £32000 a complete surprise and £1000 of premium bonds.
The money would be shared between me and my brother. My brother has debts up to his eyeballs, he gambles and drinks. He owed his ex wife £6000 in child support even though he has worked and lived in uae for years on a huge salary. When my dad died he came back to the UK, basically doing a runner from the UAE as debts over there are very serious - gaol time. During the time we waited for probate he sent me emails from the debt people to show me how urgent it was to get money. He was living on a friends sofa and not working so probably incurring a fresh debt. After 2 months the statutory notices had expired so 'in good faith' I paid my brother his half. He paid his ex wife £4000 and within the week the rest was gone. On the same day, 18th of september I received a letter from the DWP telling me that as dad had been in receipt of pension credit they would be investigating to make sure there was no money owed. I rang them and they said it was a standard letter that everyone in receipt of benefits on their death received. I filled the form in telling them about his money and premium bonds. On the 22nd of november I got another letter from the DWP Debt Management Recovery From Estates asking for 6 years of bank statements. They also asked for information on his Guernsey state pension, they had that but I sent it too. On the 20th of March a letter from DWP came asking me to pay £86.43 Pension Credit overpayment and a second letter asking for £13000 to be repaid more Pension credit from 02/02/2015 to 08/07/2018 - £3389.01 AND Pension credit from 24/01/2011 to 08/07/2018 - 10184.25 My father's bank account went over £10000 on 23/03/2102. All the money in his account was money received from a uk state pension of £76.57 a week and a Guernsey pension of £59.44 His Pension Credit Guarantee was £86.43. Since 2004 he has had AIP -Assessed Income Period. So my thoughts... To me the dates they want to claim money back dont make sense. Two time periods over lapping and he didn't go over 10.000 until 2012. I think mistakes have been made on all sides. They knew he was in receipt of two state pensions so should they have been paying him so much in Pension Credit Guarantee? Has there been an 'Official Error'?? IF it seems that they are correct I realise the position I am in, It's my responsibility as the executor to pay it ALL back. However I do not want to pay my brothers. He has offered to pay me £35 a week. Can I arrange for him to do this directly with the Recovery of Estate Department as I really want nothing to do with him. (He is a narcissist and really abusive) Then I shall pay my half. I know this is a long one and maybe I should just go to a probate specialist but any advice from here first would be much appreciated.
Not so Jolly Jane:p

Flugelhorn

jolly_jane wrote: »

M On the same day, 18th of september I received a letter from the DWP telling me that as dad had been in receipt of pension credit they would be investigating to make sure there was no money owed. I rang them and they said it was a standard letter that everyone in receipt of benefits on their death received. I

Oh dear, sounds like a real pickle - did they suggest in the letter that you did not distribute the estate yet?

Dox

Flugelhorn wrote: »

Oh dear, sounds like a real pickle - did they suggest in the letter that you did not distribute the estate yet?

Doubt it - and they aren't required to do so.

OP, the unhappy truth is that as executor, you are responsible for making any repayment to the DWP. They won't be interested in dealing with your brother and will take the line that is your responsibility (and in truth they are correct, I'm afraid).

Not clear from your post if they are trying to recover overpayments which go back more than 6 years?

Much will depend on whether the overpayments arose as a result of the DWP being given inaccurate information (or not given relevant information) about your father's financial situation; or whether it came about as a result of their mistake.

jolly_jane

The letter came telling me not to distribute funds on the day i distributed the funds! After waiting the two mo ths and being hatrassed by my brother I ,in good faith gave him his half.

jolly_jane

They are asking for money from 2011. He didnt go over 10.000 until 2012

getmore4less

You need to get the numbers looked at by someone that knows the rules.
Especially anything going back over 6years

Keep_pedalling

jolly_jane wrote: »

They are asking for money from 2011. He didnt go over 10.000 until 2012

Looking at the numbers you have quoted, the main problem seems to be the fact that PC was being paid as though he had no pension from Jersey rather than the amount of savings. If he was on an indefinite AIP then he would not have had to notify the DWP about his increased savings, was this the case?

hb2

OP, you say that DWP were aware that your father was in receipt of 2 state pensions. What makes you so sure of this? Government departments are notorious for not speaking to each other and I certainly wouldn't expect DWP to automatically be aware of the Guernsey pension.

Skiddaw1

Hi Jane,
First post (have been lurking for a while) but felt I had to respond. I was a welfare rights worker for 25 years (now retired) so I've dealt with a lot of these 'recovery from estates' overpayments over the years.



As you say, your father would have been subject to an Assessed Income Period (AIP). They're now defunct but whilst they were in existence he would not have been required to report any changes to his 'retirement provision' (additional capital or pensions) whilst the AIP was in place. Some people had indefinite AIPs but I doubt this would have been the case for your father. What should have happened is that his Pension Credit would have been reviewed when his various AIPs expired. Sometimes the Pension Service issued a paper form but sometimes the review would have been done by phone. At this stage he would have been required to update the Pension Service on any changes to his pensions and/or capital and his ongoing Pension Credit would have been reassessed accordingly (if he still had an ongoing entitlement) and another AIP would be set.


Now, if your father didn't notify the Pension Service that he had a pension from Guernsey (either at the time of his initial Pension Credit claim if applicable, or when his Pension Credit was reviewed) he may have incurred a recoverable overpayment. If, on the other hand, he did notify the Pension Service (either on his initial application or when his claim was reviewed) and they failed to reassess his award any resulting overpayment would be official error and not recoverable. It's also quite possible (I've known it happen frequently) that his award was never properly reviewed- sometimes the Pension Service sends a letter to the effect that the AIP is soon due to expire and that the person should expect a phone call to review the award but it never actually happens (if so, again, any resulting overpayment is official error). It's a similar situation re the capital- from what you say, this built up gradually due to his accruing state benefits and Guernsey pension (rather than him having undeclared capital from the start of his claim). Again, if his Pension Credit claim was reviewed and he didn't state his capital had increased there would potentially be a recoverable overpayment but if he did declare it (or his award wasn't properly reviewed) it would be their error (and not recoverable).



You really need to see all the correspondence, logs of phone calls, copies of claim/review forms, etc, to understand the progress of events but I'd be willing to bet that there may well be no overpayment at all (or if there is, they've calculated it incorrectly).



What you need to do now (AND DON'T DELAY- THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT!!) is to write to the Pension Service (the address at the top of their letters) to request a MANDATORY RECONSIDERATION of the overpayment decision/s. You MUST do this within 1 month of the decision letters being issued or you run the risk of missing the boat. If you're now outside the month (from your post I think the decisions may have been issued in March?) request a LATE Mandatory Reconsideration and explain why the request is late (confusion about the process and family issues would probably suffice). There's no guarantee they'll accept the late request and if they won't you'll need to seek further advice, but give it a go. In relation to explaining why you want a Mandatory Reconsideration uou needn't write an epic- just something to the effect that you believe your father was subject to an AIP throughout the relevant period, that he completed all correspondence sent to him accurately and that there has been no failure to disclose his financial circumstances. Ask for a hold on any ongoing recovery action whilst the dispute is being dealt with (they'll agree to this if the request is within the usual time limits and MAY agree to hold things even if the request is late).



The Pension Service will review their decision and will eventually (this may take a while) send you a Mandatory Reconsideration decision. This may well be a re-hash of the original overpayment decision/s (not at all unusual) and at this stage you'll have a further month to lodge an appeal with the (independent) Tribunals Service. Again, there will be a hold on recovery whilst the appeal is ongoing. Once the appeal has been lodged the Pension Service will have to produce an appeal submission (which you'll be copied on) which will include a copy of all the relevant correspondence, claim forms, etc. It'll be easier then to follow the progress of events but it's also worth you going through your father's paper-work to see if you can find any letters from the Pension Service relating to the relevant periods.



You'll be offered the choice of a paper appeal hearing or attending the hearing (which will be at a venue local to you) and it's always better to attend- it gives the (legally qualified) person hearing your appeal a chance to ask you questions and obtain any additional information they require. Attending a hearing sounds daunting but it really isn't as scary as it sounds.


Ideally, you need ongoing advice and assistance from a welfare rights person to guide you through this process. Try your local Citizens Advice (they often have a benefits specialist in-house) or if you have a welfare rights unit or law centre try them (don't bother with a mainstream solicitor- they won't take on something like this) or contact Age Concern as they may also be able to assist.


By all means post again once you've received the Mandatory Reconsideration response and I'll do what I can to advise you further.



Hope this helps a bit anyway and good luck with it...

jolly_jane

Thank you everyone. The DWP should have known about the Guernsey state pension as a.they have a reciprocal agreement with the CI 're state pensions and b. There is a letter from the DWP telling my father that Guernsey had been in touch with them 're his pension. As guernsey had tried contacting my father to pay him his state pension and had had no reply from him they asked the dwp to contact him which they did. Tbe dwp knew my father was eligible for Guernsey state pension.

I have missed my month to appeal I have rung the DWP every couple of weeks to tell them I need more time to sort out family issues.

I will ask for a late mandatory reconsideration and see what happens.
THANK YOU.xxx

Skiddaw1

Sounds very promising Jane! When you provide your reasons for the late MR do mention the phone calls you've made to the DWP over recent weeks. They should have retained a log of your calls but if you have anything you can include with your MR request to confirm the calls you've made do include it.