Carer element. backdated or not?

Brunswick993

Hi, looking for some advise please.
I have cared for my disabled wife for the last 6 months, she has osteoarthritis and has mobility issues and is waiting for ops to fix her hips, then knees. I took redundancy back in oct'18 and now look after her as her mobility has got worse.
She was assessed and awarded PIP (daily living and mobility) in march '19, backdated to dec '18, and then I was awarded carer allowance in April '19 backdated to Jan '19.
Then, of course, the DWP snatch back the carers allowance, the backdated part too, coz they deduct £1 for £1, and the carer element comes into the picture but it's not backdated, which seems odd and quite unfair.
My question is, should it be backdated like carers allowance? Carer element can't be claimed until PIP or carers allowance is awarded, especially as I've been caring for 6 months.
I've searched and read some info regarding this and it reads like an entitlement that the DWP like to wriggle out of, with many saying it should backdate to when PIP claim was started, or when the allowance was started (differing opinions).
I want to query or appeal but I'm becoming confused with the stuff I've read on various forums, and I need to be sure of the facts, so any advise is very welcome.
TIA. :j:j

Alice_Holt

"Then, of course, the DWP snatch back the carers allowance, the backdated part too, coz they deduct £1 for £1, and the carer element comes into the picture but it's not backdated,"

Do I assume from this that you have claimed Universal Credit, had the Carers Allowance deducted from your total UC but were not in receipt of the Carers Element?
You now want the Carers element backdated to the start of the UC claim?
Can you give us more details of your UC claim.

When you claimed UC did you make them aware of your caring responsibilities?
Did UC know that your wife was in receipt of PIP?
What UC conditionality group are you and your wife in?

What steps have you taken to get a backdate of the carers element?
Do you have a decision letter from the DWP refusing this, what does it say, and when is it dated?

This is what Carers UK say:
"When you are awarded Carer’s Allowance or the ‘underlying entitlement’ to Carer’s Allowance let the relevant means-tested benefit department know so that the carer premium, carer addition or carer element can be included in your benefit calculation. The carer premium, carer addition or carer element can be backdated to the date your Carer’s Allowance was backdated to. "

Have you contacted Carers UK - they have a telephone / email advice line?

If you haven't give them a ring:
https://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/talk-to-us
and let us know the outcome.

If you haven't raised this with UC, I would suggest:
a) put a note on your journal and quote Carers UK,
b) ask for a decision letter,
c) if the DWP refuse a backdate then consider an appeal of their decision through an MR / appeal process with the help and advice of your local advice charity / CAB?

What is the " stuff I've read on various forums"?

huckster

From what I have seen, carers element will only be backdated, if the caring activity was declared at the time.

So even if you were awaiting the PIP award, you could have indicated a caring activity for 35 or more hours per week. UC would not have been able to have awarded the carers element at the time, because no PIP in payment, but the caring activity was disclosed. When the PIP is then backdated, you apply for the carers element requesting it to be backdated, due to the previous disclosure of the caring activity.

Brunswick993

:eek: Crikey Alice, thanks for reply but that's a comprehensive list of Q's! Bearing in mind I'm of the non multi-tasking gender

So I'll try to answer, in order, yes, we've been on UC since just after xmas following my redundancy in Oct '18.
We're on just the joint basic amount, and my journal does record on 4/1/19 that I stated I was caring for my wife, although at that stage PIP hadn't been awarded so wasn't relevant?.

PIP was subsequently awarded in March '19, backdated to dec '18.
My Carers allowance was granted april '19, backdated to Jan '19
UC then claimed back the CA, around 800, by way of a 'we've overpaid you, give it back now' letter (which I'm sure would frighten some people, but not me )
Sorry, I don't know what conditionality group we're in, not heard of this before.

My journal stated that we'll be getting Carer element. I asked if this is backdated. After a few days this was the reply:-
No your carers allowance was back dated to when you made your claim with them but carers element only starts when we are informed carers is in payment - we do not back date in-line with them. No further payments are due with regards to carers element.
I don't have a decision letter, only this entry on my journal.
I thought this was odd, after all I had been caring for 6 months, and I was told I can't claim CE until in receipt of CA and PIP.

So I had a trawl around the net, found a few similar stories or 'stuff'
forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5985479&highlight=carer+element
(I think you've contributed to this thread too)
rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14133/#66561
(sorry, as a new poster it won't let me post as links, so copy/paste needed)

I have also emailed carersUK and I'm waiting for a reply.
Meanwhile, on my journal I've queried it, asked for it to looked at again by a decision maker, and said that I'm getting advise. They don't respond as quick as one would like.

Note. There was one particular peculiarity. I called the UC number to discuss soon after the CA was snatched back, the asst coach was bemused regarding why the carer element hadn't kicked in, presumably because he could see that I'd stated caring duties, and that PIP was awarded, so he asked me to do a circumstance change of 'uncaring', then 're-caring again' to reboot the system, if that makes sense? I was a bit perturbed by this, so I recorded the event on my journal, just in case.

Thanks for your prompts and advise. Please do ask more!

So as you've recommended, a. I have noted on my journal, and b. I'll ask for a decision letter but I'm inclined to wait for their next reply. And c, I feel a battle coming on, so yes I'll appeal if needed. It just doesn't sit right with me. This is the reason I'm gathering as much expert advise and help that I can, so thanks again.

calcotti

huckster wrote: »

From what I have seen, carers element will only be backdated, if the caring activity was declared at the time.

So even if you were awaiting the PIP award, you could have indicated a caring activity for 35 or more hours per week. UC would not have been able to have awarded the carers element at the time, because no PIP in payment, but the caring activity was disclosed. When the PIP is then backdated, you apply for the carers element requesting it to be backdated, due to the previous disclosure of the caring activity.

I think you are right that DWP are doing that but i believe they are wrong to do so.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/661570/admf6.pdf

F6010 !The conditions for the award of a carer element are that the claimant has regular and substantial caring responsibilities for a severely disabled person.

F6020 !A UC claimant will have regular and substantial caring responsibilities where they
1. satisfy the conditions of entitlement for CA ….


It follows that if CA is awarded are backdating that the claimant met the requirements for the carer element as far back as the start date for CA. The carer element should therefore be paid from the start of the assessment period in which the CA start date falls. (Note this means that the carer element may actually be due from a date slightly before the CA start date.)

The claimant is entitled to a supersession of their UC award for the period concerned which will involve adding on the carer element and subtracting the Carer's Allowance.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/720476/adma4.pdf

A4220 In the case of UC where the claimant or a member of their family becomes entitled to another relevant benefit, ceases to be entitled or the rate of another such benefit alters then the superseding decision takes effect from the first day of the assessment period in which entitlement to the other benefit or an alteration in it’s rate arises or entitlement ends.

Alice_Holt

I think you are correct in challenging the DWP decision that it can't be backdated. I would follow up your journal entry by making clear that you are asking the DWP for a Mandatory Reconsideration of their decision not to backdate. (The entry on your journal is, in effect, a decision you can challenge)

The group you are in may be relevant. If after the PIP decision, you were placed in the No work requirements group because of your caring responsibilities to your wife, then the DWP have accepted that you do have caring duties and you should have awarded the carers element (IMO).

I would proceed with an appeal.
If the MRN is unsuccessful then appeal to the Tribunal Service quoting the decision makers advice notice that regulation calcotti has given you, and the UC regulation quoted in the rightsnet discussion.
"I think the carer element should be backdated to the start of the AP in which Carers Allowance entitlement begins: see para 34(2)(a) of Schedule 1 to the 2013 D&A Regs."
You have nothing to lose by appealing, and DWP decisions around such issues are frequently incorrect.

Brunswick993

Just as an update for those who are curious. The issue of backdating CE or not has been in mandatory reconsideration mode since mid May. This process usually takes around 28 days. Not heard back yet, but hopefully I can update the situation soon, especially if this dilemma might help someone else in the future.

Brunswick993

I'm unsure what my next step should be,

My case regarding the backdating CE, according to my journal, was sent to a decision maker on 21st May, I've not had a reply, and it's now 49 days.

When I queried how long it was taking after 35 days with my case manager because I was aware that 28 days is normal, but I was told it can take longer.

But how much longer is acceptable, and what should I do to perhaps add some urgency?

Sheepski

Unfortunately there's nothing much you can do to speed up the process. Try calling them again and ensuring they're aware that the MR was lodged, is about all I can think of.

calcotti

In a parliamentary reply about MRs in respect of PIP it was recently stated that as a guidance a reply should be received within 10 weeks
https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2019-06-27/270341/

Asked by Grahame Morris(Easington)[N]
Department for Work and Pensions - Personal Independence Payment270341
To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, ... if she will make it her policy to (a) establish and (b) publish a waiting time target for processing personal Independence payment mandatory reconsiderations.

Answered by: Justin Tomlinson Answered on: 02 July 2019
There is no target in law for processing mandatory reconsideration (MR) applications. Decisions are made without delay, but the focus is on making sure that the decision under dispute is thoroughly reviewed.
We are engaging with stakeholders to explore how we can improve the MR process. We have also recently implemented a new approach in PIP which includes contacting claimants, where appropriate, to see if there is information that would enable us to change the decision ourselves at an earlier stage. To support this, we are investing additional time and resource for communication, evidence gather and review, which means that some cases can take longer. However, this approach supports our aim; to make the right decision as early as possible so that claimants don’t need to progress to the Appeal stage.
Introducing performance indicators - be they in relation to outcomes or the speed of clearance - would compromise the Department’s quality-driven approach. But as explained in my previous reply, from late May 2019 claimants have been advised that as a guide, and to manage their expectations, that they should hear from the Department within 10 weeks.

Although this question and answer are about PIP rather than UC it may be indicative of the general state of affairs at the DWP.

There are a number of statements made in this response with which regular posters on this site may take issue!

Stuckinarut

I haven't read all the replies as they are lengthy. However my husband was awarded his pip in april backdated to Nov. I put in for the carers element and put a note on my journal advising that I wasn't eligible previously and that it would have made no difference to my commitments as I work full time. It took the full 28 days for a reply but we got it backdated.