Seller did not disclose chimney removal, now unsafe

SmashedAvacado

MakPak wrote: »

Many thanks for the replies, that's useful insight.

At no point did the seller or his solicitor mention the removal of the chimney, either verbally or in documentation. The TA6 form specifically asks in question 4.1 what building works were undertaken and the chimney breast removal (a major structural change) were not declared and I relied on this information. If it had been written there then certainly my solicitor would have required completion certificates.

I don't believe the seller can rely on my home buyer's report to pick up works they have neglected to declare (in fact unless my solicitor sent it to them without my knowledge then they've never seen it).

The point i was making was that the removal of the chimney was noted in your homebuyer report (you said that in an earlier post). So you were aware of it. So in my mind, the hurdle you need to get over is showing that the fact that the seller did the works as opposed to a previous owner would have made a difference when you purchased. I am not sure that is going to be easy to show. That's before you get into the fact that the seller might just say that the works were part of the other works and as such you were aware of what was meant. You had a professional undertake an inspection. They signed off on it - that's where i'd be starting my battle.

Jumblebumble

MakPak wrote: »

Many thanks for the replies, that's useful insight.





If the seller had correctly declared the works in question 4.1 and 4.4 (regarding lack of completion certificate) then I would not have proceeded without it having been checked and my solicitor would have picked this up at an early stage for checking. The failure to declare the works meant it was not picked up. I would not have accepted indemnity for a potentially structurally unsafe building work (which is more to stop council enforcement as I understand).





I would be happy if this were the case! But I can easily imagine the insurance company saying that the works were not signed off and therefore are not covered.



At no point did the seller or his solicitor mention the removal of the chimney, either verbally or in documentation. The TA6 form specifically asks in question 4.1 what building works were undertaken and the chimney breast removal (a major structural change) were not declared and I relied on this information. If it had been written there then certainly my solicitor would have required completion certificates.

I don't believe the seller can rely on my home buyer's report to pick up works they have neglected to declare (in fact unless my solicitor sent it to them without my knowledge then they've never seen it). When I said previously I assumed something, I'm justifying after the fact since the chimney was not in my mind when we completed (it was a very stressful time). I received the completion certificate for the declared extension works (1 week before completion to my solicitor) and documentation for all "red" rated items in the home buyer's report and therefore proceeded since I believed all issues were dealt with (in hindsight I could have been more careful or have got a full structural survey).

With regards to the statement that no lie was made, only who did the work, I don't believe this is accurate. The seller said no other building work was done requiring regs and I relied on that when making my judgement to proceed. If they stated that the chimney had been removed but neglected to mention who did it then that would be a different matter but it seems a genuine "lie" to me.

I hope this doesnt come across the wrong way, I genuinely appreciate your comments!

I think that you are going to find it very hard to sue anyone especially as the vendor will if he has any common sense insist you produce the homebuyers report which identifies that that the breasts were removed and that he advised you to check if building control was in place. observing that a professionals advice should trump what he put in the form.

The Homebuyer surveyor is going to say the 2 years ago everything looked hunky dory and will cover himself again by saying he told you to check if building control had signed it off. I am surprised he did not advise you to obtain advice from a structural engineer
I suspect that unfortunately you will have to try and claim on your insurance or suck this one up
Not to be harsh but it is a trifle absurd to commission a professional, be advised to check if building control have signed off something and not do so and then blame someone else.
JumbleBumble

MakPak

Jumblebumble wrote: »

I think that you are going to find it very hard to sue anyone especially as the vendor will if he has any common sense insist you produce the homebuyers report which identifies that that the breasts were removed and that he advised you to check if building control was in place. observing that a professionals advice should trump what he put in the form.

The Homebuyer surveyor is going to say the 2 years ago everything looked hunky dory and will cover himself again by saying he told you to check if building control had signed it off. I am surprised he did not advise you to obtain advice from a structural engineer
I suspect that unfortunately you will have to try and claim on your insurance or suck this one up
Not to be harsh but it is a trifle absurd to commission a professional, be advised to check if building control have signed off something and not do so and then blame someone else.
JumbleBumble

It seems based on the replies that I may be on shaky ground if my home buyer's report has to be produced (legally at least, the seller knew what he was doing and has left me with several issues already).

It's no doubt irrelevant, but the chimney breast removal is not specifically identified under the section "J - Risks" or "I - Issues for your legal advisers", only under "Inside the property" in a section marked green - 1 so it didn't particularly ring alarm bells at the time as it should have (it's 31 pages, discussed many issues which we were dealing with and in my mind the chimney breast removal was tied up with the extension works for which I was awaiting the documentation). The surveyor mentions many things to check related to the extension (internal wall supports etc.) and says that I should ensure they were complied with in Section I. At the time I believed that the building control completion certificate and plans etc. would cover all of these works (based on the only building work being done being the extension as stated by the seller).

My solicitor notified me one week in advance of completion that she had finally received all plans, approvals and completion certificates and was happy with them so I proceeded. I should have asked to see all the documentation and read it in detail to see if the chimney was part of the extension (didn't due to naivety and pressure to complete as soon as possible for financial and personal reasons). I have the impression that sending this documentation at the 11th hour was a tactic.

It does seem wrong to me that a seller can do illegal unnotified works, lie about it on an official form but then be safe based on the fact that I should have asked if he was lying or mistaken based on my home buyer's report.

I may take G_M advice and speak with a solicitor for a free half hour to see if there's anything that can be done. As GDB2222 pointed out the works were illegal, incompetent and undeclared on the TA6 form which caused them to be missed.

Thanks for all the useful comments anyway, I'm glad I came on here to get some opinions :beer:.