Universal credit and private pension contributions

calcotti

steely333 said:

It wont let me post links yet.

So go to GOV.UK website its advice for decision makers you need H1 CAPITAL then go to H1842

Yes I read that but as I said nothing about deprivation of capital is relevant when considering the treatment of income.

The discussion here is about the treatment of regular pension contributions made from earnings. Capital is not involved. If your case is different and is to do with capital then you have confused the issue by raising it in this thread.

huckster

@steely333  start your own separate thread and that will enable your specific issue to be discussed.  Adding your questions to someone else's thread is a bit confusing. 

And when you start your own thread, it would help if you provided a short summary of position, followed by a short explanation  of your argument.

TMel42

Thank you for the extra information and help it is much appreciated, I've just been looking at the MR Notice again and it states the law used to make the decision as follows: 

The UC Regulations 2013 55,61
Welfare Reform Act 2012 c.5
The UC, Personal Independant Payment, Job Seekers Allowance and ESA (Decisions and Appeals) regulations 5,7,8
Social Security Act 1998 Sections 8-10
Social Security Administration Act 1992

I did quote the UC Regulations 55 as I had already read this thread by that point. I will start sorting the appeal process. It is so frustrating when I have been paying into my private pension since 2015 and never had a problem with pension deductions through the tax credit system. I do wonder if I have muddled things up by also starting to pay into the workplace pension scheme too. 

I also pay professional fees and even though I have stated details the UC staff have not replied at all regarding these, I am unsure whether to detail this is my appeal details or try yet again through the online journal? 

To deal with all this on top of work commitments, life commitments and caring for my disabled child is just so bad with regards my mental health. At the moment, I am fighting for the principal of it - hopefully I will be able to not have to deal with UC for much longer. But how many years is this going to go on for for countless other people treading the same system.  

calcotti

TMel42 said:

..I've just been looking at the MR Notice again and it states the law used to make the decision as follows: 

The UC Regulations 2013 55,61..

Obviously understanding what they have read is beyond whoever made the decision.

NedS

TMel42 said:

Thank you for the extra information and help it is much appreciated, I've just been looking at the MR Notice again and it states the law used to make the decision as follows: 

The UC Regulations 2013 55,61
Welfare Reform Act 2012 c.5
The UC, Personal Independant Payment, Job Seekers Allowance and ESA (Decisions and Appeals) regulations 5,7,8
Social Security Act 1998 Sections 8-10
Social Security Administration Act 1992

I did quote the UC Regulations 55 as I had already read this thread by that point. I will start sorting the appeal process. It is so frustrating when I have been paying into my private pension since 2015 and never had a problem with pension deductions through the tax credit system. I do wonder if I have muddled things up by also starting to pay into the workplace pension scheme too. 

I also pay professional fees and even though I have stated details the UC staff have not replied at all regarding these, I am unsure whether to detail this is my appeal details or try yet again through the online journal? 

To deal with all this on top of work commitments, life commitments and caring for my disabled child is just so bad with regards my mental health. At the moment, I am fighting for the principal of it - hopefully I will be able to not have to deal with UC for much longer. But how many years is this going to go on for for countless other people treading the same system.  

Reg 61(2) does not allow the SoS to overrule Reg 55(5)(a), which is the only relevant regulation in this case. In fact 61(3)(b)(ii) specifically allows the SoS to ignore 61(2) where the RTI data does not reflect the definition of employed earnings in Reg 55(5)(a) insomuch that not all relievable pension contributions have been deducted in this case.

DWP clearly do not like people doing this and they deliberately make it difficult IMHO by citing irrelevant regulations at MR. The law is really clear and there is no doubt. You must stand your ground and go to tribunal if necessary. I am yet to hear of a case that has actually made it to tribunal as DWP usually back down and concede the case knowing full well the law is not on their side.

huckster

Trying to consider contrary argument.

"relievable pension contributions” has the meaning in section 188 of the Finance Act 2004 F3 "

The Universal Credit Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)     ( Section 53 meaning of terms)


If you then look at section 188 of the Finance Act.

Finance Act 2004 (legislation.gov.uk)


This is where I fail to understand the legislation.  I have a feeling that the legal position is not that clear, but it is whether DWP would want this to be considered by Courts.

If I were in this situation of DWP not allowing a relievable pension contribution to be factored into a UC award calculation, I think I would write to my local MP and ask if they can raise the issue with DWP.   Quote the legislation back to them and ask for the DWP position on this legislation. 

TMel42

I too have difficulty understanding the legislation there. I have contacted my local MP with links to relevant information including a link to Enabling and Encouraging Saving 2013 (sorry can't post links yet). I believe page 17 states that all pension contributions are to be deducted from Universal Credit claims. My MP did contact UC at the same time as I did the MR but otherwise I haven't really seen much action from them so far. 

calcotti

I don’t think there is any ambiguity in the legislation.

Regulation 55 (5) states

(5) In calculating the amount of a person’s employed earnings in respect of an assessment period, there are to be deducted from the amount of general earnings or benefits specified in paragraphs (2) to (4)—
(a) any relievable pension contributions made by the person in that period;

There is no qualification aboutdeduction only be allowable if made by the employer on behalf of the employee etc.

Philosophically I can’t see that an employed person choosing to pay into a pension scheme from the earnings they receive is fundamentally any different to a self employed paying into a pension scheme.

TMel42

I will have to go ahead with the appeal and I presume raise all evidence to state that nowhere is it stated that only statutory pension deductions are able to be deducted from income used for UC calculations. What I also do know is that all the deductions I am querying are historical and were being deducted whilst I was on the tax credit system. 

I have read on another site that I need to request a MR for every period that the deductions are refused, so having read that should I really be querying the lack of private pension contribution every month in my online journal? I also need to query the lack of any correspondence regarding the professional fees I pay as these I believe can also be deducted from my income as they are not refunded by my employer. The payments are split over 4 consecutive months to enable me to budget for them  - this is going to be very messy if they refuse every month and I have to MR every month. 

NedS

huckster said:

Trying to consider contrary argument.

"relievable pension contributions” has the meaning in section 188 of the Finance Act 2004 F3 "

The Universal Credit Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)     ( Section 53 meaning of terms)


If you then look at section 188 of the Finance Act.

Finance Act 2004 (legislation.gov.uk)


This is where I fail to understand the legislation.  I have a feeling that the legal position is not that clear, but it is whether DWP would want this to be considered by Courts.

To satisfy 55(5)(a) the contributions must be relievable and made in that period. Relievable means they qualify for tax relief, so as per the Finance Act 2004 quoted by @huckster above, contributions must be made to a qualifying pension scheme registered in the UK, you must be resident in the UK (which you must be to claim UC anyway), you must be under the age of 75 and you must not have contributed more than you earn or have exceeded the £40k annual allowance. To be considered for UC purposes, the contributions must have been made in the AP in which you are asking for them to be considered.