BW letter of claim defence help

meanie66

Hello,

Please can you help?

A letter of claim has been received in my daughters name.
She is stressing as BW legal are demanding £160 or they will take court action within 30 days. This claim is from a PCN from the Maritime Car park Falmouth in 2015 by Anpr. The driver entered the car park late in the evening when it was dark and nobody at the time remembers seeing any clear signage stating you still had to pay for parking even though it was 8pm in the evening. Ignorance on their behalf perhaps but they didn’t realise, the car park was empty, otherwise the small sum of £1.40 that was needed to park would have been paid. No ticket was received and now the registered keeper of the car (my daughter) which is no longer owned is being pursued for the debt.

No PCN has been received, Just two letters debt recovery letters in 2017 from two different companies 1 month apart from each other - ZZPS and QDR quoting the same PCN and demanding two different amounts. At the time I advised my daughter to ignore the letters.

I am preparing on her behalf a SAR to send to Premier Park ltd and a letter to BW legal to state her intentions. Is there anything in particular I should state to BW or to just send a simple letter asking them to put this on hold? Also, will they accept correspondence from myself with my daughter’s permission?

I’m not local to Falmouth so can’t readily check the Maritime car park to see if the signs are clear at night. Would anybody know how I could obtain this information without me having to drive 300 miles to check for myself.

Lastly, I’m not sure even if there’s any defence here. Is this worth the grief and headache that it’s giving me or should I just swallow the bitter pill and pay up to clear my daughters name.

Kindest regards

Coupon-mad

This claim is from a PCN from the Maritime Car park Falmouth in 2015 by Anpr. The driver entered the car park late in the evening when it was dark and nobody at the time remembers seeing any clear signage stating you still had to pay for parking even though it was 8pm in the evening.

Have a look at the other Premier Park LBC threads from this past week by searching the forum for (NOTICE THE ABSENCE OF THE WORD 'PARK' IN THE SEARCH!)

Premier LBC

or

PP BW Legal LBC

I wrote a letter on Monday for people to send to BW Legal whilst they get a SAR from PP to get the data - photos and letters. You can plagiarise it, and remove the sarcastic tone if that's not your DD's style.

Find the other PP BW Legal threads and you have the advice already there.

Lastly, I’m not sure even if there’s any defence here. Is this worth the grief and headache that it’s giving me or should I just swallow the bitter pill and pay up to clear my daughters name.

No.

There is nothing against her name and never will be. No CCJ, no risk, no huge costs.

This is a life lesson I would give my daughter and help her through it!

DEFEND THE CLAIM, WITHOUT A DOUBT!

Your DD has a defence of the unlit signs (and if she wasn't the driver she has the POFA/not relevant land defence as I think this place falls within byelaws land).

Unlit signs are REALLY fundamental and the SAR should flush the photos out.

Also, will they accept correspondence from myself with my daughter’s permission?

Nope, but you simply do it in her name like I do for everyone I help!

meanie66

Thank you so much for replying to my thread, you have been most helpful.

I’ll do a search for the letter that you’ve recently composed on a similar thread and send a similar one out to them ASAP. As I’m going to be sending it from myself in her name, do you think I can still use my email address?
Also, if PP ask for proof of ID for the SAR should I send a copy of her drivers licence as there isn’t a V5C as the car was sold a few years ago.

You have definitely given me confidence to defend this claim, I’m just very nervous if it gets to the court stage as neither myself or my daughter would be at all confident in speaking up in a court room.

Definitely another life lesson being learnt here. (for myself too) I’ve always said to my daughter you must stand up for yourself and what you believe in, and never let a bully win.

I was very close to paying the claim to get rid of the stress but that is giving in to the intimidation and not practicing what I’ve always preached.

Thank you again for helping me.

KeithP

meanie66 wrote: »

...neither myself or my daughter would be at all confident in speaking up in a court room.

Have a look at this short video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU

Coupon-mad

As I’m going to be sending it from myself in her name, do you think I can still use my email address?

Yes, I use mine all the time when I help people I know with these.

Also, if PP ask for proof of ID for the SAR should I send a copy of her drivers licence as there isn’t a V5C as the car was sold a few years ago.

No because that implies she was driving, and not only that, did you see Watchdog this week talking about the DVLA losing driving licences in the post, and the warning that they contain SO MUCH personal data that someone could potentially open a credit account with just that document?

They DO NOT need anything with her DOB on it, no driving licence, no passport.

Does she have a letter with the home address they have for her, on it? Phone bill, bank statement (redacting the account number & balance which is too much information), even a polling card?

Try submitting the SAR first with no ID attached...don't forget to put her name at the bottom of the email and the best postal address you prefer post to come to about this, confirming 'this is my address for service'.

didgeridoooo

Hey CM - sorry to chip in but I found this thread when trying to find ones similar to mine. You said something earlier in this thread which interested me: "Your DD has a defence of the unlit signs (and if she wasn't the driver she has the POFA/not relevant land defence as I think this place falls within byelaws land)"
That last part, could you elaborate a bit please?

OP - It seems there are a lot going through at the moment (mine was also 2015) - they are serial swines. This article might psyche you and your daughter up a bit! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4495276/Parking-firm-fines-family-driving-car-park.html
Also, you may want to follow my thread in case I am ahead of you and you might get early warnings or ideas from it. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5997731/bw-legal-any-help-very-much-appreciated&page=3#topofpage

Oh and PS - You might want to join me in writing a stinking letter to the Falmouth Maritime Museum who own that land. They have the power to squash this whole thing. Unlikely that they will, but no harm in asking, and telling them what you think of their "Charity". My wife and kids used to go to the museum often, bought membership etc etc. NEVER AGAIN. If you're interested you can email the Director at richarddoughty@nmmc.co.uk and the head of customer services (i think) at cathhorton@nmmc.co.uk. A nice explanation of how to find their bear trap (sorry, I mean car park) here https://nmmc.co.uk/visit/getting-here/ - note no mention of "watch out for the troll that lives in the camera"

Oh and PS - I doubt it but just in case.... if you have any photos of the car park or signage I would be grateful to see them. I can't afford to go there to take photos, but worse still, I can't afford a time machine to go back to 2015 and see what signs were in place at the time. (I even looked on Ebay, no used ones unfortunately)

I did notice that the signage was definitely DIFFERENT between 2011 and 2018 (the two photos on Google street maps. 2011 - no entry signs, 2018 - entry signs. In case that's any use (experts will advise, I am not one!). I will update my own thread shortly with the photos.

Best of luck anyway, never give in.

Respect Existence - Expect Resistance.

Coupon-mad

''...(and if she wasn't the driver she has the POFA/not relevant land defence as I think this place falls within byelaws land)"
That last part, could you elaborate a bit please?

Yes, here you go.

Read the Department for Transport's 2012 Guidance and explanatory notes about the POFA, at

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9155/guidance-unpaid-parking-charges.pdf

There, the DFT clarify the question at 4: ''On what type of land does Schedule 4 apply? 4.1 The provisions in Schedule 4 are intended to apply only on private land in England and Wales. Public highways are excluded as well as any parking places on public land which are either provided or controlled by a local authority (or other government body). Any land which already has statutory controls in relation to the parking of vehicles (such as byelaws applying to airports, ports and some railway station car parks) is also excluded.''

didgeridoooo

Hey CM, thanks very much for that reply. Interesting stuff and added to my notes doc!
I am not sure how to check if there are bylaws in place there, what gave you that idea? I hope it's true, and will find out if poss. I checked who owns the land and it's the National Maritime Museum Cornwall. I deemed that privately owned but if you suspect it's not, or has some element of ownership or control by central/local govt, I will be pleased to discover that little nugget!

Thanks

Coupon-mad

I am not sure how to check if there are bylaws in place there, what gave you that idea?

Thought there was a chance it might be within the Harbour byelaws map. You can Google to read them & check the boundary. It might not be; I don't know the area, but Ports & Harbours span large land footprints.

didgeridoooo

I see. Great idea, I will go find out. Thanks

meanie66

Apologies for late response. I have only just noticed the new posts on this thread. I thought I may have received an alert or notification if anything new was posted.

An update on my daughters case.
I have received the SAR from PP which contains letters that was sent to keeper and also photos of keepers car entering and leaving the car park. The photos are pitch black with only the headlights shining and number plate on show.
I have also received the letter of response from BW.
The letter contains numerous photos of the Maritime car park with reference to the car parks signs in the car park and also at point of entry.
All of these photos have the date stamped at the top which are the same year that the driver parked but in the summer and not the winter.
I'm not even sure if the date on the photos are legitimate, How would this be proved or how could I find out when the signs were put in place?

In BW,s covering letter they have said they trust this concludes any outstanding queries, and failure to contact them within 14 days may lead to further collections, or legal action.

Please can you advice on my next course of action should be?

Didgeridoooo,
Thank you for your input, I will complain to the manager at Maritime by email. I know it will fall on deaf ears as they are seemingly getting away with this. My daughter was at Uni in Falmouth and 300 miles away now so unfortunately unable to research further on signs at the car park past or present.

As for byelaws of the Harbour - I'm also trying to find out where the boundary lies as it isn't very clear on the maps. If you find anything that's relevant I will be most grateful if you could share it.

Many thanks