Uk cpm

Butterscotch29

Sorry for the post,

I have tried to read as much as possible on the newbies side of things and simply can’t find what I’m looking for!

I received a PCN from UKCPM, this was from End of March and I received the letter today 11/05/2019 after transfer of liability.

The driver was using a hire vehicle at the time, parked up whilst the passenger ran in to use the toilet in McDonald’s, was there for no longer than 5 minutes, I didn’t leave the vehicle.

The PCN is a CCTV issued PCN and with the pictures provided The driver was there for 2 minutes.

The PCN the driver has, has the IPC logo and IPCAO roundel on it.

Please can I have any links to anything on the forum and answer to whether or not I should be paying this PCN.

TIA:beer:

The_Deep

Read the ATA COP about waiting times. (Acronyms explained in stickies/google), and get your MP on board .

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Redx

NO LINKS

but read post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, scroll to the bottom of it and read the HIRE car info by edna basher

use one of his templates in the links to appeal you PCM as hirer or as keeper (no blabbing about who was driving , edit your last post)

the DRIVER drove on the day

the HIRER has now received the NTH , which is appealed as hirer or as keeper

they have probably failed POFA 2012 , possibly on timescales and also by not including the hire docs with the NTH

in which case you as hirer are not liable (only the driver is, but you are not telling anyone who that was)

grace periods and signage also play a part

but for now appeal as HIRER/KEEPER to PCM with one of the edna basher templates (not the blue text one earlier in that post - that is for proper keepers , not hirers like you)


its fools who talk about who was driving and what happened on the day that lose money

Coupon-mad

You should send Edna Basher's lessee/hirer appeal, which is one of the 3 links near the bottom of the first post of the NEWBIES thread. Go find them NO LINKS, and obviously don't use the Fleet Manager one of the three!

It will not get the PCN cancelled but by not telling them who was driving, but sending a dispute that confirms you were the lessee/hirer and that you know they didn't comply with the POFA para 13 & 14 (due to no enclosures with that NTH), that stops them having any excuse to ever write to the lease firm again, and sets the tone for your defence.

DO NOT PAY UKCPM.

'Greedy ex-clamper scumbags' is how posters here describe them.

Then come back if they start a court claim via Gladstones, as we win 99% of them.

Butterscotch29

So just to confirm please, I post the following into the appeals page?

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,



THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE.

THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

And then I put my name and postal Address at the bottom?

Coupon-mad

Please don't post the standard template and ask ''is it this one?''

That is not even the right one.

I told you exactly where to find the lessee/hirer versions.

Butterscotch29

Well I’m so sorry....

Does it or does it not say at the bottom of the letter Hirer/Lessee?

Coupon-mad

Yes but that is the standard appeal, and in the case of a hirer/lessee that would have been the right thing to send on day 26 after a windscreen PCN. That's not your stage, you've had liability transferred by letter.

This is where to find the one you need:

You should send Edna Basher's lessee/hirer appeal, which is one of the 3 links near the bottom of the first post of the NEWBIES thread. Go find them NO LINKS, and obviously don't use the Fleet Manager one of the three!

It will not get the PCN cancelled but by not telling them who was driving, but sending a dispute that confirms you were the lessee/hirer and that you know they didn't comply with the POFA para 13 & 14 (due to no enclosures with that NTH), that stops them having any excuse to ever write to the lease firm again, and sets the tone for your defence.

Butterscotch29

COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

In the case of a company car or hire car, if you get a windscreen ticket you MUST appeal before day 28 (well before day 21 when it's an IPC firm which only 'offers' 21 days to appeal - check the PCN). This is in order to hook the PPC in your direction, before they get a chance to get the keeper's details from the DVLA.

You should also warn the owner/keeper (Fleet Manager) not to pay if they do get a letter about it because they have no business to get involved in a fake PCN you have already appealed as driver, and you won't reimburse them if they are daft enough to pay it.

If the hire/lease co gets a postal PCN and names you as the driver/hirer, that is a good thing as it removes them from the loop entirely and then you can follow the above advice as appropriate to your case - but check and see if they have charged an admin fee. Challenge that admin fee with the Fleet Manager, Hire firm or your HR Manager, if your car use t&cs do not support this deduction for a mere invoice (as opposed to a fine/penalty).

Here are some examples of a successful first appeal. These examples relate to a situation where the PPC has (pretty much ALWAYS!) failed to send the required documents to the hirer (you) with the postal Notice, by day 21 after the date they were informed of the hirer's details:
forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5703794[/url]

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69859059#post69859059[/url]

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69767583#post69767583[/url]


Thanks to Edna Basher for the template appeal for when it's a Hire/company/lease car and a postal Notice has been sent out, after the hirer/lessee/company car user has been named. Remember, that does not mean they have named the 'driver'! So stay schtum about who was driving!

Here is Edna Basher's latest 2018 draft appeal for a Fleet Manager (hirer company) to use:

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5881338[/url]

Worked the same day!

I cannot find the draft appeal. is this one of the links you were on about?

Coupon-mad

Yes and the 3 links I told you to look for are right there - you quoted them.