Solicitors: Negligence?

hcw1

Posting this on behalf of a friend. She is a first time buyer, buying on her own - she's buying a leasehold flat near where we grew up for £91,000.00.

She got herself a mortgage advisor, who promised to help with the mortgage application, dealing with solicitors and the bank (flat is a repossession) amongst other things.
As the sale needed to complete within 28 days, her mortgage advisor advised her to use a solicitors that for the moment will remain unnamed as they were known to be speedy (they are fairly big).

It turns out that the mortgage advisor has raised the mortgage for the wrong property and when sending the valuation surveyor out, he picked up on this and valued the correct property - when he sent the valuation and mortgage offer back to the mortgage advisor and she still did not pick this up.

It gets worse. I'm buying at a similar time and asked her about her actual survey and when that was being completed. She had no idea what I was talking about and hadn't been advised about these at all but thought her solictor may have put this in for her.

So.. she gets in touch with the solicitor. No survey had been ordered. Then when questioning it, in the confusion the solicitor asked if she meant searches, and that she needed to pay to have these completed. She had already paid three weeks previously. When told this, the solicitor then decided that there was an additional £8 to pay for the searches that hadn't been mentioned previously (on top of £320 already paid) and refused to do anything further until this was paid. She also said that she hadn't ordered these previously because she couldn't do this without the sellers pack and then she'd gone on holiday.. no apologies.

These have now been ordered and supposedly came back two days later (I'm suspicious), but my friend doesn't seem any closer to receiving these.
Mortgage advisor was told of her mistake against the wrong property, again no apology and blamed Santander!

Solicitor has now come back with fees totally over £2000.00 excluding the searches, which is completely against the 1,500 quoted on their site and int he initial quote (however this does say that they can change)

I'm keen to know what, if anything, my friend can do at this point? She's close to losing the sale because of other people's mistakes and losing her mind. She's worried about complaining in case it makes things worse for her. Makes me really angry to see a young single girl being so clearly taking advantage of by others.

She still really wants the flat and has put enough money into it that pulling out isn't an option

agrinnall

I have to say that I'd be inclined to consider spending no more, pulling out of the purchase, and abandon both the mortgage advisor and the solicitor when she finds another property that she likes.

steampowered

As I read your post, there are three separate complaints:

1) A complaint against the mortgage adviser for ordering the mortgage valuation against the wrong property.

2) A complaint against the solicitor for not ordering searches or arranging holiday cover.

3) A complaint against the solicitor for charging £2000 rather than the £1500 quoted.

Assuming your friend still wants the house, I think she just needs to focus on chasing all relevant parties and getting the purchase to a close. Complaints about fees or slow service can be taken up later.

I don't think your friend is being "taken advantage of" - just getting poor service.

Exodi

My views in red;

hcw1 wrote: »

Posting this on behalf of a friend. She is a first time buyer, buying on her own - she's buying a leasehold flat near where we grew up for £91,000.00.

She got herself a mortgage advisor, who promised to help with the mortgage application, dealing with solicitors and the bank (flat is a repossession) amongst other things.
As the sale needed to complete within 28 days, her mortgage advisor advised her to use a solicitors that for the moment will remain unnamed as they were known to be speedy (they are fairly big). - fair enough, all seems fine

It turns out that the mortgage advisor has raised the mortgage for the wrong property and when sending the valuation surveyor out, he picked up on this and valued the correct property - when he sent the valuation and mortgage offer back to the mortgage advisor and she still did not pick this up. - Presumably we're talking about an incorrect house number and the EA picked up on it when the survey was booked. Also as you say the offer was sent back and not noticed, the mortgage offer did have the right address on it? So what is the issue exactly?

It gets worse. I'm buying at a similar time and asked her about her actual survey and when that was being completed. She had no idea what I was talking about and hadn't been advised about these at all but thought her solictor may have put this in for her. - Why would the solicitor organise a survey? Why did you not point this out?? I appreciate she's a first time buyer but everyone was a first time buyer at some point. It's not fair she didn't do any research into buying a house whatsoever and felt everyone else should do everything for her.

So.. she gets in touch with the solicitor. No survey had been ordered. Obviously, it's not the solicitors job to organise the survey, it's hers... Then when questioning it, in the confusion the solicitor asked if she meant searches - no wonder the solicitor is confused! I am in disbelief you allege the solicitor didn't know what a survey was though. I feel your friend was asking for something completely different., and that she needed to pay to have these completed. She had already paid three weeks previously. - If she's 3+ weeks in without the searches being done, she really should pull out. When told this, the solicitor then decided that there was an additional £8 to pay for the searches that hadn't been mentioned previously (on top of £320 already paid) and refused to do anything further until this was paid. - It's not ideal the solicitor under-quoted the search charges but she's buying a £91,000 house, did she really argue over £8? The solicitors have to pay for the searches up front so it's fair she refused to do anything until it was paid. It sounds like you're both accusing the solicitor of trying to con you out of £8! She also said that she hadn't ordered these previously because she couldn't do this without the sellers pack and then she'd gone on holiday.. no apologies. - I think you should lodge a complaint about this, your solicitor should have delegated this due to the time frame.

These have now been ordered and supposedly came back two days later (I'm suspicious), but my friend doesn't seem any closer to receiving these. - has she called and asked for them? Mine were all emailed across.
Mortgage advisor was told of her mistake against the wrong property, again no apology and blamed Santander!- To be honest, it's not clear who actually is at fault. The lender could have equally typed the wrong address initially and it doesn't seem to have caused any issues?

Solicitor has now come back with fees totally over £2000.00 excluding the searches, which is completely against the 1,500 quoted on their site and int he initial quote (however this does say that they can change)- the solicitor is requesting fees before the house is completed? Has your friend mentioned pulling out then or has she now exchanged? Ask the solicitor for a breakdown of the fees and compare them to the original quote.

I'm keen to know what, if anything, my friend can do at this point? She's close to losing the sale because of other people's mistakes and losing her mind. She's worried about complaining in case it makes things worse for her. Makes me really angry to see a young single girl being so clearly taking advantage of by others.- How has she been taken advantage of? Do you mean to suggest that the MA/lender deliberately got the address wrong because she's female? The solicitor is charging £8 extra for the searches because she's young? No-one organised a survey for her because she's single? If I'm brutally honest, your friend should have done the slightest bit of research into what is required when buying a house, especially as the process would need to be seamless to accommodate a 28 day window and stop pointing fingers at everyone. I'd imagine she's already asked about pulling out for the solicitor to reiterate their fees. She's welcome to complain to whomever she wishes. I'm also unsure why, as you say you're buying your own house, you didn't seem to provide her any advice whatsoever.

ciderboy2009

Was it made perfectly clear to the solicitor that she wanted completion in 28 days when they were appointed?

AdrianC

hcw1 wrote: »

It turns out that the mortgage advisor has raised the mortgage for the wrong property and when sending the valuation surveyor out, he picked up on this and valued the correct property - when he sent the valuation and mortgage offer back to the mortgage advisor and she still did not pick this up.

So she didn't pick up on it either... but there was no harm done because it got quickly corrected.

It gets worse. I'm buying at a similar time and asked her about her actual survey and when that was being completed. She had no idea what I was talking about and hadn't been advised about these at all but thought her solictor may have put this in for her.

So.. she gets in touch with the solicitor. No survey had been ordered.

That's not the solicitor's job.

Solicitor has now come back with fees totally over £2000.00 excluding the searches, which is completely against the 1,500 quoted on their site and int he initial quote (however this does say that they can change)

Right, and?

I'm keen to know what, if anything, my friend can do at this point?

Give herself a nudge to stop assuming everything else is going to do things without her paying any attention.

Makes me really angry to see a young single girl being so clearly taking advantage of by others.

The obvious inference there is that she is, by dint of gender alone, assumed to be incompetent since she has no man to take control for her.

I'm sure that's not really what you mean, but...

She still really wants the flat and has put enough money into it that pulling out isn't an option

Then she needs to stop delaying and blaming others, and start paying attention to what she's doing.

hcw1

Sorry to be clear, my frustration for her is that:
Her mortgage advisor didn't advise her of the survey differences. She (MA), as expected and the full reason I didn't bother with one, oversold her services to my friend (in front of an audience who have seconded this) that she would basically manage the whole process so all my friend basically had to do was sign documents put in front of her. Appreciate in hindsight it's a little naive but frustrating none the less when neither parties are communicating or doing what they are being paid to do. The mortgage offer is for the wrong flat number, the surveyor picked this up when doing the valuation and flagged it in his report - which I clocked when she asked me to read it. It was my friend who told her of this, at which point she said it was Santander's mistake.

Her solicitor did not order the searches despite being paid, these cost more than originally quoted (and double the price that mine did despite being done at the same time). When she asked where they were, she was told she needed to pay for them (despite confirmed receipt) so when she questioned this she was told to pay an additional charge of £8 else the searches weren't being ordered, which she did.
The solicitor has since presented final fees which are £1960 or thereabouts, which are an additional £500 on what was quoted to her originally and on the site.

Admittedly, I am protective - my friend is trying to get on the ladder earlier than anticipated after her flatmate decided to live with her partner, and her own partner (after losing his mother) decided he no longer wanted to share the property which she couldn't pay for on her own. Money is tight as she's had to do this before she'd originally planned due to circumstances, so to see fees being charged for things such as an additional £200 for dealing with restrictions, £200 for leasehold that was forgotten until now, the additional costs to the search pack which has come to £333.00, seems a little like someone's taking advantage of someone who doesn't know their stuff.

I just wondered if it is considered negligent, I can appreciate that everyone makes mistakes from time to time.
For those wondering if my frustration is related to her being female, it's not - everyone involved in this is female and I don't have any worry that it's gender based - more than this is a first time buyer doing this on her own with no support model from family and only myself from our friend group who is muddling through this at the same time so not all that much help really!

davidmcn

Not sure what you think you mean by "negligence", but at most some of this might be poor service, and other points are probably just you and/or your friend being unrealistic about what's meant to happen.

SuperHan

hcw1 wrote: »

Sorry to be clear, my frustration for her is that:
Her mortgage advisor didn't advise her of the survey differences. She (MA), as expected and the full reason I didn't bother with one, oversold her services to my friend (in front of an audience who have seconded this) that she would basically manage the whole process so all my friend basically had to do was sign documents put in front of her.

Did she mean this about the mortgage process? My MA is doing everything so that I just have to send info when requested and sign where needed. However, this is just one part of the house buying process. My MA isn't involved in any other part.


Nor did my MA even mention a survey (other than I could upgrade my lender valuation to a homebuyer report - but who knows if your friends lender offers that). I have found and instructed a surveyor of my own accord.

Appreciate in hindsight it's a little naive but frustrating none the less when neither parties are communicating or doing what they are being paid to do. The mortgage offer is for the wrong flat number, the surveyor picked this up when doing the valuation and flagged it in his report - which I clocked when she asked me to read it. It was my friend who told her of this, at which point she said it was Santander's mistake.

This is just a no harm done mistake. They happen, nobody was hurt. Move on.

Her solicitor did not order the searches despite being paid, these cost more than originally quoted (and double the price that mine did despite being done at the same time). When she asked where they were, she was told she needed to pay for them (despite confirmed receipt) so when she questioned this she was told to pay an additional charge of £8 else the searches weren't being ordered, which she did.

This is annoying (but you/your friend/the solicitor all sound a little confused). As others have said, the solicitor may just wanted to ensure their costs were covered before they released the searches. This may even more be the case if your friend talked about pulling out.

The solicitor has since presented final fees which are £1960 or thereabouts, which are an additional £500 on what was quoted to her originally and on the site.

Have you asked the Solicitor why this is different? Your post suggests £200 is for leasehold - did your friend tell the lawyer it was a leasehold property up front? There are very different legal implications of a leasehold property. You also mention restrictions - again, if these weren't anticipated then they couldn't have been factored into the original quote.


The search pack for my solicitors is £234, and there's land registry fees of £135. Your friends quote seems to be in a similar ball park.






Buying a house is complicated and expensive. That's the way it is. The solicitors etc are there to help, but they cannot be expected to compensate for your friend's naivety and lack of personal due diligence.

sheramber

So, the solicitor has explained the extra charges, not just made up a random number.

Kls123

Hi All

It’s myself who the original post is in regards too. Thanks for all your replies so far just to clarify my main issues which I intend to complain about are below

Morgage advisor - I chose this particular Morgage advisor as she is affiliated with the company advertising the property & at the time of offering there was already another buyer midway through the process & due it being a repossession with a 28 day completion deadline she advised things needed to move quickly and she is best place to ensure this happens. I paid her £500 for the advise which i didn’t mind paying to get everything sorted on time. Upto now she has applied for the Morgage (the Morgage offer had the wrong flat number on as mentioned above) I did raise this a few times with her and she advised she would check with Santander why they had put the wrong flat on the offer. I also raised the error with the conveyancer who advised my Morgage broker had applied for the Morgage with wrong flat so unsure really where the error has came from. Appreciate people make mistakes but when you are paying £500 plus another £500 in referral payments I would think she would check these things. The bank have said they will not be issuing another offer with the right house number on but conveyancer assured me this won’t be a problem.

Searches - my main issue with the searches are that obviously there was a 3 week delay between me paying for these and them being ordered which I will complain about as it has caused the seller to have to extend the 28 day deadline for a further two weeks. It caused me more confusion as the conveyancer said they hasn’t been ordered however the Morgage advisor who was copied in all communications emailed me separately to say they had in fact been done they were just waiting on 1 more coming back and it’s was a systems issue why the conveyancer couldn’t view them which I accepted. However I then had further communication from conveyancer to say they 100% haven't been done and she had done them that day. So the lack of communication between them concerned me. In the end they actually come back within a day which is good as it didn’t cause even more delay. Although obviously I’m frustrated as we could have been at completion stage by now if this error wouldn’t have happened im happy we can move on however I will raise a complaint about delay as in my opinion having annual leave isn’t a reason to not complete a service and it should have been handed over to someone else. They arrived a week ago however I haven't actually seen them yet as I’m awaiting a search pack (I have been chasing this every couple of days)

Additional Costs - when speaking to the Morgage adviser I asked how much I should set aside for solicitor fees she said around £900 when I got the quote from solicitors it was slightly higher around £1400 which I accepted as I don’t mind paying a bit more of the job gets done quickly however due to the issue with the searches it probably would have been cheaper in hindsight to find my own solicitor

Leasehold- I’m aware flats are leasehold and I don’t own the ground and was advised to find out the length of the lease as if it doesn’t have long left this can cause issues with obtaining a Morgage however it still has 125 years left so didn’t see this as an issue. When I received the first balance statement from conveyancer there were no leasehold charges, I immediately went back to them with a separate query as they had put charges on for searches which I had already paid upfront. She replied straight away with an amended statement but added an addition £200 for leasehold charges. £200 for dealing with restrictions and a £90 encrossment fee. Obviously I was a bit taken aback as this is 4 weeks since they were instructed and these costs hadn’t been discussed and aren’t details on the general price list they sent me at the beginning. However the response was that the charges were on my quote from the estate agent? I checked all my documentation but couldn’t find said quote I have queried this with estate agent and asked for a copy of said quote and am yet to receive a response to that

To clarify I don’t mind paying what’s due but it does seem steep to pay £2000 (not including the searches) to purchase a 91,000 flat so I don’t want to just be paying money for the sake of it but I have accepted I will have to pay it and have ordered a second credit card to cover these extra costs although if I wasn’t provided with said quote and I should have been I will raise that as a separate complaint.

At the minute I’m awaiting the Search pack and all the info regarding the leasehold and I am chasing them on a daily basis for this info as new deadline is 16th May

I’m not delaying the process in any way I have completed all the forms I have been asked for on the same day and I have not complained about any of above yet as I’m aware they can take 4 weeks to process but I intend to once we have completed.

The post was more to see if you think the above is grounds for complaint or if it’s just to be expected when going through the process and that these things happen?

In regards to the naive comments obviously I haven't bought a property before and am not legal expert so likely am naive

Whilst the above is ongoing, as it a repossession it is still being advertised and people can still make a higher offer on the property so any delays are risking me losing the property the more this goes on for. I also have a lease up myself at the end of the month the delays have a knock on effect on moving in dates etc so although I’m not happy with the service I have received I’m not being difficult or delaying the process nor am I sitting back and expecting others to do the work. I’ve asked multiple times if there’s anything I can do to speed things up and been told it’s out of my hands so not sure what more I could have done in the situation


Thanks again for your comments and any further advise is welcome

Also my friend who posted the original comments is just trying to help as she is purchasing a property with a chain which is triple the value of my flat and she is completing before I am and her fees are more than half of mine so obviously she feels like this doesn’t seem right