IHT/gifts/7 yrs

castle96

How is an executor expected to complete this form, especially as regards gifts/PETs ? If there were no statements/cheque books, if accounts had been closed years ago, records lost/destroyed... how is it possible to trawl back 7 years into someones past. Do HMRC have some way of searching a persons history with all Banks/institutions ?
If someone were to look at my last 7 years, it would be complicated/impossible to get a full picture. I might (probably would have binned the used cheque book) have a cheque stub saying "Dave £5000" and no date. What would that mean to anyone..?
I probably keep statements for a couple of years, but now most people are paperless. The days of one main a/c are gone surely.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/750238/IHT403_10_18.pdf

Yorkshireman99

castle96 wrote: »

How is an executor expected to complete this form, especially as regards gifts/PETs ? If there were no statements/cheque books, if accounts had been closed years ago, records lost/destroyed... how is it possible to trawl back 7 years into someones past. Do HMRC have some way of searching a persons history with all Banks/institutions ?
If someone were to look at my last 7 years, it would be complicated/impossible to get a full picture. I might (probably would have binned the used cheque book) have a cheque stub saying "Dave £5000" and no date. What would that mean to anyone..?
I probably keep statements for a couple of years, but now most people are paperless. The days of one main a/c are gone surely.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/750238/IHT403_10_18.pdf

As usual HMR&C have it their way. The onus on the testator to keep a accurate records. Personally I have spreadsheet with all gifts recorded. My executor know where this is as well as other financial information. That is the ideal way but I am the exception. If you are appointed executor IMHO you should discuss the will before the testator dies. Do it now!

getmore4less

Have a read

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm14000

Keep_pedalling

If you are making gifts as part of IHT planning then as YM says you must keep records. It is simply not fair on your executors otherwise, and it could cause them to refuse to take the roll on especially if they are not major beneficiaries.

Most of this type of gifting is to children and usually you would make them executors as well, so they should have some idea of what has been gifted should you fail to keep records but you should still do so. I have just updated our records and a copy sits with the copies of our wills in our safe. I also send a copy to the solicitor who holds the originals.

Tom99

Unless the decease kept records designed to help their executor then I expect most executors rely on their own and other family recollection as to whether gifts over £3,000pa have been made.
I am sure many gifts get overlooked.

castle96

"Unless the decease kept records designed to help their executor then I expect most executors rely on their own and other family recollection as to whether gifts over £3,000pa have been made.
I am sure many gifts get overlooked. "

exactly - get overlooked, so who would find them/take them into account

Marcon

castle96 wrote: »

"Unless the decease kept records designed to help their executor then I expect most executors rely on their own and other family recollection as to whether gifts over £3,000pa have been made.
I am sure many gifts get overlooked. "

exactly - get overlooked, so who would find them/take them into account

You're being rather naive about how HMRC goes about this if they have any cause to be suspicious. The onus will be on the executors to provide evidence to disprove any assumptions HMRC makes.

castle96

The onus will be on the executors to provide evidence to disprove any assumptions HMRC makes.

We the HMRC 'believe' (assume) that XYZ happened (even if it didn't/we can't prove it did... Now disprove this (even if you can't

This is how it works then ?

Tom99

castle96 wrote: »

The onus will be on the executors to provide evidence to disprove any assumptions HMRC makes.
We the HMRC 'believe' (assume) that XYZ happened (even if it didn't/we can't prove it did... Now disprove this (even if you can't
This is how it works then ?

I would expect that much depends on the value of the estate and the type of assets owned.
No declared gifts for a £1m estate where £800,000 is the family home may not cause any questions to be asked but a £2m estate with £1m of that in cash/investments and children as the beneficiaries may look suspicious.

Yorkshireman99

castle96 wrote: »

The onus will be on the executors to provide evidence to disprove any assumptions HMRC makes.

We the HMRC 'believe' (assume) that XYZ happened (even if it didn't/we can't prove it did... Now disprove this (even if you can't

This is how it works then ?

Essentially yes. The HMR&C believe they are invincible. If need be they need to be challenged but is not an easy task.i speak as someone who has successfully taken them to court three times. On each occasion they gave abject apologies after being reprimanded in court. I have letter framed on my home office wall.

Keep_pedalling

castle96 wrote: »

The onus will be on the executors to provide evidence to disprove any assumptions HMRC makes.

We the HMRC 'believe' (assume) that XYZ happened (even if it didn't/we can't prove it did... Now disprove this (even if you can't

This is how it works then ?

HMRC have extensive financial information on all of us so unless you have kept all of your wealth in cash under the mattress they can see if you have become a lot poorer over the last years of your life, and that could trigger an investigation if the IHT forms submitted look suspicious.