Impending charge for rent arrears - NOT MINE!

paulballuk

My ex wife has defaulted on rent payments in 2018 before vacating the property that we shared back in 2008 owing £4,500 with costs.

I have been served with court papers that happened in my absence (and with no notification) resulting in a pending charge against my house and ccj. I have instructed a solicitor to prove my innocence, but the charging solicitor will not let up.

What has transpired is the contract they are using as evidence is dated 2011. At this time I was separated and living with my parents and have provided documents to substantiate this. I was also midway through divorce proceedings and have documents to prove this also.

The charging solicitor is still claiming that the latest contract was signed by me in 2011 and is binding, which was in fact signed fraudulently by my ex wife. She has admitted this in writing to both solicitors, but the charging solicitor refuses to drop charges, presumably as I have a house and she has no assets.

The charging solicitor is adamant that I didn't inform the landlord of my leaving, which I didn't. By my ex wife confirms that she did this verbally, but unfortunately there is little evidence to back this up as the text messages were in 2009 and she doesn't have that phone.

My solicitor is saying it may not be worth taking to court due to the costs involved and I'm already at £800 for his time, I could take to court to prove my innocence but my solicitor is saying that it may go against me that I did not ever inform the landlord that i left..

Anyone have any experience of this as I'm losing faith in the solicitor and may put the white flag up and end up paying although it goes against everything i stand for.

Before anyone suggests citizens advice I have to say they were useless and just pointed me at a few different websites for objections.

Finchy2018

If you didn't serve notice to the landlord and he agree you could leave and drew up a new contract with your ex-wife as sole tenant you'd still be liable for the rent.

davidmcn

paulballuk wrote: »

The charging solicitor is still claiming that the latest contract was signed by me in 2011 and is binding, which was in fact signed fraudulently by my ex wife.

The charging solicitor is adamant that I didn't inform the landlord of my leaving, which I didn't. By my ex wife confirms that she did this verbally, but unfortunately there is little evidence to back this up as the text messages were in 2009 and she doesn't have that phone.

I'm confused - if she had told them you had left in 2009, why did your name reappear in 2011? If the 2011 contract isn't valid then that would suggest the previous (joint?) one would still apply anyway, unless you can persuade a court that the landlord had agreed to change it to your wife's sole name.


Assuming you're being pursued for the whole costs, you would have the right to be reimbursed by your wife for her share - though I'm guessing they're chasing you because she doesn't have the money?

G_M

paulballuk wrote: »

My ex wife has defaulted on rent payments in 2018 before vacating the property that we shared back in 2008 owing £4,500 with costs.
1) you 'shared' the tenancy? Who were the named tenants on the tenancy agreement?


What has transpired is the contract they are using as evidence is dated 2011. At this time I was separated and living with my parents and have provided documents to substantiate this. I was also midway through divorce proceedings and have documents to prove this also.

2) where you were living is irrelevant.
3)your divorce is irrelevant.
4) You can be liable for a tenancy irrespective of where you live, who with, and your marital staus, so.... please answer my earlier question.


The charging solicitor is still claiming that the latest contract was signed by me in 2011 and is binding, which was in fact signed fraudulently by my ex wife.
5) So you are saying you did not sign?
6) In that case I suggest you request the police investigate your ex wife for fraud.

She has admitted this in writing to both solicitors,

7) In that case I suggest you request the police investigate your ex wife for fraud.
but the charging solicitor refuses to drop charges, presumably as I have a house and she has no assets.

The charging solicitor is adamant that I didn't inform the landlord of my leaving, which I didn't. By my ex wife confirms that she did this verbally, but unfortunately there is little evidence to back this up as the text messages were in 2009 and she doesn't have that phone.

8) 'leaving' is not the same as ending a tenancy.
9) if you did not sign the tenancy agreement in 2011, as you say, why would you even need to inform the landlord? Something missing in this story........
10) and what is the timeline of events and tenancy agreements/names? 2009? 2011? etc



My solicitor is saying it may not be worth taking to court due to the costs involved and I'm already at £800 for his time, I could take to court to prove my innocence but my solicitor is saying that it may go against me that I did not ever inform the landlord that i left..
11) he's right that it may go against you, and he's right to warn you of the potential costs.
12) equally, you might win.
13) or you could go to court without him. Has he said how you would 'take it to court'? It sounds like it has been to court, and the judge has ruled- so I imagine he is talking about an appeal......?


...... pointed me at a few different websites for objections.

which said..... what?

AdrianC

So, just for the sake of nice and simple clarity...

This is a debt pertaining to a 2011 tenancy that was signed by your ex-wife "in your name"?
And which replaced a 2008 tenancy that was genuinely signed by you both?

Then let them take you to court. You simply introduce as your defence written testimony by your ex that you did not sign it, but she did fraudulently. You won't get a CCJ until you're found liable for the bill, which you aren't.

paulballuk

davidmcn wrote: »

I'm confused - if she had told them you had left in 2009, why did your name reappear in 2011? If the 2011 contract isn't valid then that would suggest the previous (joint?) one would still apply anyway, unless you can persuade a court that the landlord had agreed to change it to your wife's sole name.


Assuming you're being pursued for the whole costs, you would have the right to be reimbursed by your wife for her share - though I'm guessing they're chasing you because she doesn't have the money?

She didn't inform the landlord at the time and i didn't inform him either....wish i had!

Correct she has no money and this would be a waste of time to pursue

paulballuk

AdrianC wrote: »

So, just for the sake of nice and simple clarity...

This is a debt pertaining to a 2011 tenancy that was signed by your ex-wife "in your name"?
And which replaced a 2008 tenancy that was genuinely signed by you both?

Then let them take you to court. You simply introduce as your defence written testimony by your ex that you did not sign it, but she did fraudulently. You won't get a CCJ until you're found liable for the bill, which you aren't.

Correct, they have already attempted to put an interim charge on my property and a CCJ on me.

My solicitor says that they will use the fact i never informed anyone I left and assumed my signature on the 2010 and 2011 tenancy agreements was mine. I don't want this to be a costly exercise..

paulballuk

Originally Posted by paulballuk View Post
My ex wife has defaulted on rent payments in 2018 before vacating the property that we shared back in 2008 owing £4,500 with costs.
1) you 'shared' the tenancy? Who were the named tenants on the tenancy agreement?
Myself & my now ex wife


What has transpired is the contract they are using as evidence is dated 2011. At this time I was separated and living with my parents and have provided documents to substantiate this. I was also midway through divorce proceedings and have documents to prove this also.

2) where you were living is irrelevant.
3)your divorce is irrelevant.
4) You can be liable for a tenancy irrespective of where you live, who with, and your marital staus, so.... please answer my earlier question.


The charging solicitor is still claiming that the latest contract was signed by me in 2011 and is binding, which was in fact signed fraudulently by my ex wife.
5) So you are saying you did not sign?
Correct
6) In that case I suggest you request the police investigate your ex wife for fraud.
What will this achieve?

She has admitted this in writing to both solicitors,

7) In that case I suggest you request the police investigate your ex wife for fraud.
but the charging solicitor refuses to drop charges, presumably as I have a house and she has no assets.

The charging solicitor is adamant that I didn't inform the landlord of my leaving, which I didn't. By my ex wife confirms that she did this verbally, but unfortunately there is little evidence to back this up as the text messages were in 2009 and she doesn't have that phone.

8) 'leaving' is not the same as ending a tenancy.
9) if you did not sign the tenancy agreement in 2011, as you say, why would you even need to inform the landlord? Something missing in this story........
Nothing missing, Left in 2009, she fraudulently signed two later tenancy agreements in 2010 & 2011
10) and what is the timeline of events and tenancy agreements/names? 2009? 2011? etc



My solicitor is saying it may not be worth taking to court due to the costs involved and I'm already at £800 for his time, I could take to court to prove my innocence but my solicitor is saying that it may go against me that I did not ever inform the landlord that i left..
11) he's right that it may go against you, and he's right to warn you of the potential costs.
12) equally, you might win.
13) or you could go to court without him. Has he said how you would 'take it to court'? It sounds like it has been to court, and the judge has ruled- so I imagine he is talking about an appeal......?
No it hasn't been to court yet, he's asked for the charge to be set aside
...... pointed me at a few different websites for objections.
which said..... what?
Just explained court procedures and told me to talk to citizen advice..

saajan_12

paulballuk wrote: »

My ex wife has defaulted on rent payments in 2018 before vacating the property that we shared back in 2008 owing £4,500 with costs. - so it was a joint and several tenancy? That means you're both liable for the full amount.

I have been served with court papers that happened in my absence (and with no notification) resulting in a pending charge against my house and ccj. I have instructed a solicitor to prove my innocence, but the charging solicitor will not let up.

What has transpired is the contract they are using as evidence is dated 2011. At this time I was separated and living with my parents and have provided documents to substantiate this. I was also midway through divorce proceedings and have documents to prove this also. - doesn't matter if you can prove it. Its irrelevant where you were sliving or whether you were married.

The charging solicitor is still claiming that the latest contract was signed by me in 2011 and is binding, which was in fact signed fraudulently by my ex wife. She has admitted this in writing to both solicitors, - so ex wife committed fraud? but the charging solicitor refuses to drop charges, presumably as I have a house and she has no assets.

The charging solicitor is adamant that I didn't inform the landlord of my leaving, which I didn't. By my ex wife confirms that she did this verbally, but unfortunately there is little evidence to back this up as the text messages were in 2009 and she doesn't have that phone. - it doesn't matter whether you can prove it.. its irrelevant whether you informed of your leaving, as that doesn't end a tenancy, nor does it absolve you of the ongoing liabilities.

My solicitor is saying it may not be worth taking to court due to the costs involved and I'm already at £800 for his time, I could take to court to prove my innocence but my solicitor is saying that it may go against me that I did not ever inform the landlord that i left.. - again irrelevant. The only thing you need to prove is whether the 2011 contract was valid or fraudulently signed.

Anyone have any experience of this as I'm losing faith in the solicitor and may put the white flag up and end up paying although it goes against everything i stand for.- why? you should have ensured your liability was terminated at the time.

Before anyone suggests citizens advice I have to say they were useless and just pointed me at a few different websites for objections.

Whether you were living there / married / leaving is all irrelevant, so stop trying to 'prove' that. AS between the LL and tenants, if you were both tenants jointly and severally liable for the rent then LL can chase either of you for the full amount. Even if the LL was informed of you leaving, that is legally meaningless and doesn't end the tenancy or remove you from the tenancy (indeed it woudl be ridiculous if the LL only agreed based on your income and then you could unilatterally absolve yourself)

The only question is whether the 2011 agreement was fraudulently signed. If you have proof (ex wife's admission) that it was fraudulently signed, then either:
1) The 2011 tenancy agreement is null & void -> original tenancy still in force, which you were party to. You still owe jointly owe rent under that.
2) The 2011 tenancy agreement is in force, but you aren't party to it as you didn't sign. The LL is deemed to not have done sufficient checks on the signatory and has to chase wife for rent from 2011.

Which of (1) and (2) is true is a legal question - I'm not sure how fraud is dealt with when there is more than one party.

To avoid rackign up more solicitor bills, reduce the confusion about who was living where. Just ask them about (1) and (2) above and decide based on that.

AdrianC

paulballuk wrote: »

they have already attempted to put an interim charge on my property and a CCJ on me.

Then it must have already been through court, and you've lost - by default, because you didn't enter a defence.

Step 1 - get that judgement set aside, on the grounds you knew nothing about the case.
https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt/if-you-dont-owe-the-money

G_M

10) and what is the timeline of events and tenancy agreements/names? 2009? 2011? etc

No it hasn't been to court yet, he's asked for the charge to be set aside

I suspect you have misunderstood.

I have been served with court papers that happened in my absence (and with no notification) resulting in a pending charge against my house and ccj.

A Charge can only be entered after it's been tocourt and the court has ruled against you. So.... what "court papers"?