Refund - Private Car Sale

Sugarglider1992

Hi

I wonder if anybody may have some advice on this matter;

My parents sold a BMW 5 weeks ago, via private sale on gumtree. The vehicle was low mile-age and was used as a run-around between their work branches and they no longer had much use of it due to using other vehicles. They hadn't had any faults with the vehicle, but didn't use it often enough to really have had the car running any length of time for any faults present to occur.

The vehicle was registered in their company name for their business insurance policy but they are not vehicle traders, and was viewed at their home address. Sold privately to a seller a few miles away and that was that.

Yesterday, the buyer arrived at their door complaining that the engine is damaged and they owe him £3000 for the repair. After speaking with him on the phone today, it sounds as if the vehicle started faulting with an engine management light, he has taken it to a specialist dealer, who after 4 separate attempts at diagnosis and fitting various parts, he has concluded part of the engine is faulty. My father, very reasonably has agreed to just buy the vehicle back. He is a qualified vehicle mechanic, so it is no problem for him to re-diagnose the faults and carry out the repairs at a fraction of the cost that the buyer would face. This buyer has shown a little threatening behaviour and they would prefer to not have the hassle of him turning up at their door with accusations when it would be just as easy for them to carry out repairs themselves and re-sell at a later date.

That being the situation, are their guidelines on how much time they are allowed to get the funds back? Once sold, the money was put back into the business and was just used up paying bills etc. They need some time to get in excess of £4000 to give to this buyer, but he is demanding a refund on Tuesday. They would need a week or 2 to find that amount of money. Thank you in advance.

Edit - just to add, the vehicle does drive. But the EML comes on intermittently and judders whilst its on. It clears itself, or clears when you re-start the car

dj1471

Firstly this isn't a private sale since it was sold by a company. As this is a company selling to a consumer, consumer legislation will apply.

The Consumer Contracts Regulations allow 14 days for a refund to be made.

Sugarglider1992

Thanks DJ, much appreciated. It would be more beneficial for the buyer to continue driving the vehicle during that time, and then obtain the refund in 14 days when the funds are available. If he decides to drop it off to on Tuesday expecting the refund, is that just his decision and does not affect their 14 days?

unholyangel

dj1471 wrote: »

Firstly this isn't a private sale since it was sold by a company. As this is a company selling to a consumer, consumer legislation will apply.

The Consumer Contracts Regulations allow 14 days for a refund to be made.

Are you sure about that?

Even under SoGA (which had a wider interpretation than CRA), it would depend on whether the business carried out the activity with any regularity.

For instance there was a delivery driver (self employed) who sold his old vehicle. SoGA was found not to apply because although it was disposing of an asset he used for business purposes, he wasn't in the business of selling cars. However the trade descriptions act was found to still apply because that applied a different interpretation.

And while the CCRs allow 14 days to refund, that is only when exercising the right to cancel under part 3 of the act and the 14 days only starts from receiving the goods back or receiving proof that the goods have been sent back. As the seller viewed at their home address, then its unlikely to have the rights conferred by part 3.

Under the CRA (if it did apply) then its 14 days from when the trader agrees you're entitled to a refund.

shaun_from_Africa

The law (Consumer rights act) states that a refund must be given within 14 days which begins on the day the trader agrees that the consumer is entitled to a refund.
Have you actually told the buyer that they can have a full refund? If so, the 14 days will begin from the time that you told them this irrespective of you letting them keep the car or not.

shaun_from_Africa

unholyangel wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

Even under SoGA (which had a wider interpretation than CRA), it would depend on whether the business carried out the activity with any regularity.

For instance there was a delivery driver (self employed) who sold his old vehicle. SoGA was found not to apply because although it was disposing of an asset he used for business purposes, he wasn't in the business of selling cars. However the trade descriptions act was found to still apply because that applied a different interpretation.

Personally, I think this case is very different to the one you refer to for one reason:

Sugarglider1992 wrote: »

Once sold, the money was put back into the business and was just used up paying bills etc.

The vehicle was obviously a company asset and once sold, the funds from the sale were put back into the company accounts and used for the benefit of the company.
I can't see that this is any different to a business selling off unwanted tools, furniture or other assets and using the revenue from the sales to bolster the company cash flow.

dj1471

The Consumer Rights Act says the refund must be within 14 days of the seller agreeing to provide one (I should have referenced the CRA above, not the CCRs. Which applies depends on the reason for the refund, here it's the CRA. Both say 14 days, but starting at different times).

I'd be wary of allowing them to continue to drive it, firstly because continued use may exacerbate whatever the fault is, secondly because they'll be adding mileage to the car which will (to some degree) reduce its value. There's also the risk theft or damage occurring during that time.

dj1471

unholyangel wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

I'm not sure why you're referencing SoGA, but the CRA defines a trader:

“Trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

Someone selling on behalf of their business seems to meet that definition.

Sugarglider1992

Sorry, by 'private sale' i mean it was sold between them and the buyer. They are not vehicle traders who buy and sell on vehicles, and it wasn't sold through a dealer.

The V5 showed their company name but was sold at their home address as thats where the vehicle was parked overnight

AdrianC

Not just a B2C transaction, but the vendor's business is as a mechanic...?

Refund time!

Sugarglider1992

So if the vehicle is seen to be sold through the business as a Trader, it allows 14 days to refund from the time it is agreed.

If its seen as a private sale, is the timescale different?