Motorcycle sold in dangerous state

kjp009

Hi All,

So I recently purchased a kawasaki ER6n from someone who had advertised it online. On contacting them and arranging to see the vehicle, i looked it over mechanically and all seemed fine, and so I decided to take it. Unfortunately, just over a week later i discovered it has a cracked frame on the underside, something which is extremely unlikely to have happened during this time. I noticed this because on coming out of work i could see it was leaning over on the side stand significantly more than is normal. The crack itself is hidden on the underside, where I (and i think most) wouldn't have thought to check.

The item was 'sold as seen' but it is my understanding that although this covers most mechanical issues, the seller cannot actively deceive (he stated it had a few scratches but generally in good condition, and reiterated this at the viewing) NOR can he sell me a vehicle not as spares/repairs which is unroadworthy or in an unsafe condition (this fault could literally have caused me to crash).

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do?

DUTR

Why are you so sure the seller was aware of the fault?

Scrapit

You didn't spot it, why would the seller have spotted it?

Aylesbury_Duck

I think you're going to find it difficult to prove that the fault was known to the seller and that it hasn't occurred during your brief ownership. You didn't spot it for a while and it didn't cause you to crash in the last week. You should scour any paperwork you've been given to see if there's anything in the service or mechanical history that might point to where the problem occurred if you think the seller has deceived you.

If the seller denies knowing about it, you'll be left to take court action.

tacpot12

Have a read of the section on Buying Privately here:

https://www.hants.gov.uk/business/tradingstandards/consumeradvice/goodsandservices/buyingamotorcycle

The key information is that you are entitled to expect the bike to be roadworthy if the seller has not make it clear that it is not.

The seller may not realise that the bike was not roadworthy or that they are acting unlawfully, so you need to approach them sensitively, and explain the situation. Send them the above like, and offer to return the bike at you expense if they return your money. Alternatively, you might offer to settle if they pay you an amount that reflects the value of the bike with a cracked frame. (You could get quotes to repair the damage from a dealer and supply these to them - you probably want to do this anyway in case you can't come to an agreement and need to go to court.

If the seller won't negotiate, taking them to court is likely to be the only option, unless they give in before it gets to court. You would need to send them a letter before action, and it would be useful to establish what law provides the protection quotes in the Hants Trading Standard website so you can quote this in the letter. This might need some legal advice from a solicitor, or possible a call to Hants (or your local Trading Standards).

shinytop

If you google "ER6 cracked frame" there is quite a lot of discussion about cracks in 2007 model frames. That being the case, if it's a 2007, the seller might have a good defence given that it's a know fault and ther seller should have checked. In this case, best bet might be to get a good 2nd hand frame and change it. Bit of a bummer though.

Joe_Horner

Tacpot is on the money here.

The requirement for roadworthiness is not dependent on the seller knowing about the fault, even with a private sale.

That's because it comes from the Road Traffic Act 1988 instead of consumer legislation. section 75 of the Act ("Vehicles not to be sold in unroadworthy condition [etc]") makes it an absolute offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle with the only defence being that you believed it wasn't going to be used on UK roads.

Because it's an absolute offence, knowledge of the fault/s isn't required in order for you to be guilty. Whether people on here think that's reasonable or not makes no difference - that's how the law is on this point.

Apart from the seller committing an offence (whether or not he was aware), because the Act prohibits such sales, if a vehicle is sold which breaches that provision then the sale is unlawful and, effectively, void.

It may well need a court case to enforce that but a softly-softly initial approach is a good idea - the seller might just do the decent thing.

consumers_revenge

Just after Christmas I had a large crack on the rear swing arm.


As far as I'm concerned the bike was perfect and had only had an MOT and service a month before. If I would have sold it I would of assumed it was perfect and I don't cane it either.


Agree its a git getting lumbered with the bill to fix but it might not have been intentional and the seller may well contribute. I would have.