Help after a fall

lisyloo

northwest1965 wrote: »

Yes own property, have savings. It's not about the money, really more about procedure and getting them placed together

So can they afford to go in privately? Bearing in mind it take time to sell property.

They don’t need the LAs permission to spend their own money. That only applies if you want taxpayer funding.

The first step would be to identify suitable venues that can meet their needs and have double rrooms if that is what’s required.
Then get their names down.
Putting their names down is not an obligation. Plenty of people die, go to hospital, find somewhere else whilst they are waiting.

You are right to be concerned about the LA placing them together I’m sorry to say.
The LA wanted to split up MIL and FIL to save money after a 60 year marriage.
They would not have seen each other much due to one being bed bound and one wheelchair bound.
This was despite there being a place in the same home on rates that the LA were already paying for one of them.
We fought and won but bed blocking in hospital was an advantage in this case as the LA were under pressure to avoid delays.

You may need to battle with the LAs but won’t you be in a better position once youve visited the establishments?
Some in our area were disgusting.

I would be starting to engage siblings/grand children/friends if any to share the load in visiting or phoning the local places and finding out fees.
It’s probably best to start with phone calls so you can rule out the ones without double rooms, with very high fees or who don’t take Alzheimer’s.

Your going to have a hard time ahead so why not start that search now?
If your mum has Alzheimer’s and needs assistance of 2 the there will be plenty of places that won’t meet her needs.

northwest1965

Social worker told me that if they can only self fund for a year, it has to be a referral from them and they can only go in a council run home.

Gavin83

northwest1965 wrote: »

Yes own property, have savings. It's not about the money, really more about procedure and getting them placed together

I disagree, it is about money. Having money gives you more choice. You don't have to follow the social workers advice and don't actually need to involve them at all. Given the circumstances it's probably better to not include them. They could potentially give you advice on homes but given their stance on this they may not prove that helpful.

I'd suggest you start looking for homes in the area which accept couples. There will be some and it's more likely they'll be the homes that typically don't accept council residents.

northwest1965 wrote: »

Social worker told me that if they can only self fund for a year, it has to be a referral from them and they can only go in a council run home.

Why can they only fund themselves for a year, surely their house is worth enough for at least a few years funding?

It's largely irrelevant anyway, what the social worker says isn't true. You don't need a referral from them and it certainly doesn't need to be a council run home, which I'm surprised still exists in your borough.

There is a caveat to this though. If the money runs out and you approach them in the future they won't pay beyond the council rate so if you choose an expensive home they may well be required to move, potentially apart. Added to this they'll still assess them so if they deem they still don't require care they may refuse to fund any placement at all. It's unlikely after they've been in there for a period of time but it's still possible.

lisyloo

northwest1965 wrote: »

Social worker told me that if they can only self fund for a year, it has to be a referral from them and they can only go in a council run home.

The referral part is true if you are reliant on LA funding.
You cant just choose that you fancy being looked after, you need to be beyond the max number of home visits
As circumstances have changed they need a review to see if they now qualify. bear in mind if one qualifies they’ll be split up but as you know they’ll only qualify if they REALLY need it.
Also note that if one goes in to a home then the property will be disregarded from the financial cals.

I think gavin is referring to self funding when of course you can do as you choose.
I too don’t really understand how the property, savings and income only last 1 year. My MIL only had a small flat, no savings, state pension and her money will last 5 years.

So £180k pot
Fees £925 minus income £285 = £640 per weeks = 5.4 years

I can only assume the property value is very low, but that’s a guess unless further details is provided.

There are very few council run homes Left.
Are you sure you’ve understood that correctly?
In our area the LA funds privately run homes provided they are in budget and in extenuting circumstance outside budget too (we went to “panel” twice and won both times).

Even if they are LA funded then you still may have a choice of homes And might want to check them out. Some of those in our area were in the overmydeadbody category and in fact one my SIL said she’d absolutely refuse (would have resulted in great hardship but it really was that bad).

If you’ve got any choice then wouldn’t you want to check them out?

I would suggest checking what ageuk says about this but you do have some rights and you should get a Choice.

Have they considered increasing visits at home?
In our area it’s £15 per hour but much cheaper than the fees which are £925 per week.
Would more visits help them stay in their home?

Another option for them might be a live in carer. This is usually ruled out as being too expensive but as they would have to pay 2 sets of care fees then is this an option worth looking into?

The starting point need to be a review of their care needs.
Has this been requested?

northwest1965

There would be a £130k to play with plus they can keep AA while self funding. We have previously looked at homes in the area and it's about £1500 up to £2000 per week for 2 of them.
We were told it had to be one from the care choices book that Northamptonshire Council produce.

Gavin83

northwest1965 wrote: »

We were told it had to be one from the care choices book that Northamptonshire Council produce.

Yes and no. If they're self funding then they can live wherever they want, that's the freedom of having your own money. However if you need to approach the council for funding in the future and it's a home they haven't approved, got an agreement with or one that doesn't take their rate it's likely they'll need to move, most likely apart.

Given the house value it would probably be best to get them in a joint room in a council approved home.

You also haven't said how much they have in the way of savings. If they aren't significant (I can't remember the figure but it's about £23k) then they'll be entitled to a 12 week disregard on the property. However in order to get this you'll still need to involve the council and will still have to follow their guidance. You are free of course to ignore this benefit but it could amount to a reasonably large sum of money.

lisyloo

northwest1965 wrote: »

There would be a £130k to play with plus they can keep AA while self funding. We have previously looked at homes in the area and it's about £1500 up to £2000 per week for 2 of them.
We were told it had to be one from the care choices book that Northamptonshire Council produce.

Have you visited the homes in the book?
Are they decent?
Do any have double rooms?

Ignore my suggestion about live in care. Wouldn’t work as they’d need to keep the property.

Personally i wouldn’t want to move them after a year, elderly people don’t adjust well to moving, even less so with dimensia, so I’d be looking for somewhere they can stay long term I.e. at the options in the book and I’d be putting there name down anywhere that was decent and have a double room as well as getting the review.

You may have entitlements to go somewhere not in the book if it will charge the LA rate but that may be elusive,

northwest1965

It seems we have some breathing space.....GP has just visited Mum. He rang the hospital as he wasn't happy to accept their diagnosis of a bruised hip. On further inspection of the X Ray she has fractured her hip. No wonder she is in pain. I am so:mad:

AnotherJoe

northwest1965 wrote: »

Social worker told me that if they can only self fund for a year, it has to be a referral from them and they can only go in a council run home.

That seem strange. What if they just go in and self fund, nothing to do with LA. Unless the home insists council backing first. Try a few. I'd guess the LA is worried that once they are in and house sold there's no way back and they will have to fund when the money runs out.

lisyloo

AnotherJoe wrote: »

That seem strange. What if they just go in and self fund, nothing to do with LA. Unless the home insists council backing first. Try a few. I'd guess the LA is worried that once they are in and house sold there's no way back and they will have to fund when the money runs out.

A property is not a liquid asset, far from it.
They can only go in if they have liquid funds to pay (the homes will certainly check want to check that as they won’t want to be stuck with people who can’t pay when they run out of money).
We don’t know the extent of their liquid assets, but if the total with the property is £130k then it doesn’t sound like the savings will last until the property is sold.

So there are two issues.
If someone has an empty property and needs care then the LA provides a loan (I did one recently and it’s called a DPA - deferred payment agreement). They may put a charge on the property.
If they want a loan from the LA then clearly the LA need to agree as they will need to pay until reimbursed.

If they have sufficient liquid assets (which I doubt) there is still the issue that they will need to move when they run out of money if they enter somewhere not on the LA list.
Old people don’t fare well with moving from familiar surroundings especially dimensia suffers who would be particularly disoriented and it would probably be a move to somewhere of lower quality.
So whilst they wouldn’t have to go somewhere the LA would fund if they had liquid assets, long term it is almost certainly in their best interests.

Just as an aside my MILs fees increased from £825 to £925 when she went from LA to self-funding.
Would have been better if we’d taken longer to sell the property as she got the lower LA rate whilst the loan was in place.