Extension encroachment complaint - where do I stand?

stillalwaystired

Hi all, I hope this is the right place for a question like this. We are building a 6 metre ground floor extension on the back of a mid terraced house that is replacing a 3 metre extension. The 3 metre extension has been there between 40-50 years and for whatever reason was built a good few inches over the middle of the party wall. The fence line continued from the corner of our 3m extension. The neighbours themselves also had an old extension that was separated by a gap of around 4 inches. The original intention (even in the planning permission application) was to continue the 3m extension until we discovered that the extension had minimal foundations at which point we decided to knock it down and build again. We kept our neighbours informed at all stages who are also building a 6m extension. Their walls for the new extension went up before we even made a start on our demolition and until Wednesday this week, they have never made any complaints or stated that we should rebuild our new wall without going over what they are calling the boundary line. On Wednesday this week after our roofing had started, they complained to our builder that we had built on their side even though we actually kept our new wall an inch or two further away from where our original extension wall was to make sure our new wall was inside the fence line. The neighbours have made it clear they see it as us building on their land and will not consider any other option other than us knocking the extension down. All the plans that their architects submitted for the extension and loft conversion show our original extension wall as the boundary line and we have never hidden our intentions from them. If they had highlighted this right at the beginning before building the walls, we would have agreed to move the wall in just to be "good neighbours". Where do we stand on this and what should we actually do? I have been to speak to the neighbours but they just seem bitter and angry and are definitely not interested in anything I have to say.

Doozergirl

Are you attached to each other? If you are then you should be building a party wall.

stillalwaystired

Yes we are joined, we actually suggested a party wall before either of us started but they flat out refused every time.

Tom99

Presumably your plan leaves a very small gap between the two walls and your neighbours want to leave a very slightly bigger gap?
Is there any maintenance advantage in the bigger gap or would it still be too small to be of use and only a wider gap to collect debris and such which cannot easily be removed.

stillalwaystired

This definitely isn't a maintenance thing. The gap as it stands is around 10cm, and by moving the wall it may become 16cm (without exact measurements). Just more space for rubbish to collect and rodents to infiltrate.

Doozergirl

I'd hire a party wall surveyor and try and convene a chat.

They need to understand the risks of a small gap and the benefits of a party wall - that you already share!

The centre of that party wall isn't hard to find - as far as boundaries go.

stillalwaystired

Both us and the neighbours already have our extension walls built. If it comes to measuring the party wall then my extension wall is an inch or two over this line. The point I have is that my original extension wall (had been there for 40-50 years) and the fence were already over this line too and the wall have built new is now actually closer to our side than it was before. Just to clarify, the space between the walls is dead space and when we built the assumption was that as long as we stayed on our side of the original extension wall and fence line then we would be ok.

Davesnave

stillalwaystired wrote: »

.... when we built the assumption was that as long as we stayed on our side of the original extension wall and fence line then we would be ok.

Did you also assume the neighbour was aware of where the original wall was, relative to the new one, or did they have this drawn to their attention before building commenced?

It seems that although the neighbour was maybe intransigent and not making the best choice, the line of communication between you was not as good as it might have been.

Doozergirl

Then your original wall sounds like a party wall, which is how sensible people build extensions on attached buildings.

You really should have been talking to each other and a proper professional on how and where to build these things. You'd both have saved money and stress.

If your removed the party wall, you should have hired a surveyor and approached the neighbour. You shouldn't have just knocked it down and presumed it's okay to build over the boundary, especially as it isn't a party wall now, it's your extension encroaching over the boundary. What is on the plans doesn't matter as the planning department don't look at who land belongs to.

They're fighting over a pointless gap, but that pointless gap is a future liability to both properties.

da_rule

Just to clarify, is the new wall you are building straddling the boundary line, entirely on your side of the boundary or entirely on their side of the boundary?

And if it’s entirely on your side, does it ‘touch’ the boundary line or is there a gap?

stillalwaystired

We had good relations before all this started and they were aware of our intentions all the way through. They even encouraged us to rebuild the whole extension rather than getting the existing one underpinned and never said anything about wanting the wall further back. Had they told us this from thr beginning we would have just agreed.