Small Claims Court - Missing Contents From House Purchase

manlovestreet

need_an_answer wrote: »

so when did the "homeless" man move in?

The items will still be classed as at least a year old.

An item that comes with a guarantee does not mean that the guarantee starts 10 months later when you move/start using or whatever...its from the point of purchase which would have been during the refurbishment by the previous owner.

Even if you were to have been the very first person to have viewed the property in Dec 17 those items were not new when you moved in...I concede they may be "as new" but they wont be brand new which is what you have replaced hem for.

There will be a difference especially is someone is trying to prove they don't owe you for what could easily be seen as your mistake at not arranging appropriate insurance to cover you.

But even if I had cover from exchange (18/10/18), the police can prove the crime took before that date, the insurance would check with the police/police crime report, I assume my insurance wouldn't cover it as the crime took place before my cover.

need_an_answer

manlovestreet wrote: »

You are correct, the guarantee starts from point of purchase. But from my point of the view the items were brand new, never been used and in a secure, locked house..

.

That's you making an assumption again.

From the point of view of what you may be entitled to claim ie the litigation point of view there is betterment now involved so your full claim of £2500-£3000 or whatever you paid for brand new replacements could be contested.

silvercar

manlovestreet wrote: »

The key here is "legal expectation it will be in the state it was at exchange".

This may not always be the case, and if it isn't the liability should be towards the seller/owner.
If the exchange and completion is on the same day/1 day apart it makes things more difficult, and if the estate agents do not have any suitable appointments on that day, it would further delay matters.

The seller's argument will be that they weren't aware that it wasn't in the state you expected.
Your argument is reduced by the fact that the police opinion is that the damage/ theft took place before you exchanged. Therefore you exchanged on the property in its damaged condition.

manlovestreet wrote: »

Thank you.

I did disclose this to the insurance company and also informed them that it has been reported to the police, estate agents and my solicitor. I also informed them the front and rear door locks have been changed and all windows have been secured closed with a key lock on the handle.
They informed me that as I wasn't insured at the time, there isn't a claim I could pursue through them

Suggests to me that you spoke to the claims department after taking out the policy. The question is whether you declared it when arranging your policy and was it allowed for in the quote?

need_an_answer

manlovestreet wrote: »

But even if I had cover from exchange (18/10/18), the police can prove the crime took before that date, the insurance would check with the police/police crime report, I assume my insurance wouldn't cover it as the crime took place before my cover.

What evidence do the police have to prove date the crime to before exchange....?
Silver car is completely correct in the assumption that you "exchanged in a damaged state" and in the absence of an inspection by you that becomes more factual potentially.

From what I have read here they were alerted to it on 19th and can only make an assumption that it happened sometime before that date and the date in September when you last visited.

The likelihood of probability says it took place before exchange but without an actual date you are still very much implicated as being the possible owner of the property when the crime took place

I still find it amazing that you had a compliant "homeless " man who moved out at exactly the time you needed to take occupation.
I've known LL's and homeowners who have had to pay thousands to evict them correctly....and yours just left....wow.

Albala

I cannot understand how the seller is not liable to hand over the property in the condition stated in the fixtures and fittings, and as seen by the buyer on their last visit. I read rants from plenty of vendors who don't see why they should allow any visits at all after an offer has been accepted, and it is not in any way usual to ask for a visit immediately prior to exchange, nor AFAIK do solicitors routinely advise it.
If the general attitude here of 'if you don't inspect 1 minute before exchange, then the buyer can remove, leave or damage anything they like' was true, then how come people who (like most buyers) did not do such an inspection can get restitution when things that should have been left are not and similar? And what's the point having F&F list at all? I would have thought it was up to the seller to take pictures to prove it was as it should be at exchange.

[Deleted User]

manlovestreet wrote: »

But even if I had cover from exchange (18/10/18), the police can prove the crime took before that date, the insurance would check with the police/police crime report, I assume my insurance wouldn't cover it as the crime took place before my cover.

That seems to be the important point here. Given that any judgement in Small Claims Court will be based on the balance of probabilities, the fact that the police think it was the vendor's responsibility to have it insured puts you in a good position.

Unfortunately even if you win there is no guarantee that they will pay up. If they have insurance it should pay out, but it could be a long hard road.

You could send them a letter stating your intent to use small claims court if they don't pay up, and suggesting that they make an insurance claim.

Cakeguts

Are you saying the "homeless" person got in and out of the house through the open window?

rococomaiden

Did the vendor leave the window open, or was there forced entry? Surely if the vendor did not secure the property then they are at fault.

Additionally I imagine that the quantity of cigarettes found would indicate how long the homeless person occupied the property for.

I personally suspect the vendor removed the carpets to furnish their new house, left the window open at that time, allowing a homeless person to make use of the property, damaging it in the process (why would a homeless person steal carpet? Does a carpet black market exist?!).

phill99

You are going to go round and round in circles. You will get nowhere very quickly with the police, vendor, estate agents, solicitors, random homeless people etc. You will spend a lot of money and no guaranteed outcome.


As sympathetic to your situation as I am, I think you need to tale a reality check. The money that you will spend out on solicitors fees etc (without a guaranteed outcome) will be far more than the cost of a new toilet, extractor and carpets.


Sadly, I think you should just put this down to experience and pop along to Carpetright in the morning and get your life back on track.

need_an_answer

rococomaiden wrote: »

I personally suspect the vendor removed the carpets to furnish their new house, left the window open at that time, allowing a homeless person to make use of the property, damaging it in the process (why would a homeless person steal carpet? Does a carpet black market exist?!).

If we have now got to the point where we all sum up and give our list of suspects as to who committed the crime then I am going to go for a neighbour.

The vendor wasn't living at the property and refurbished it to sell on,it presumably had been empty for many months 10,11,12.
They had moved on,were wanting to sell and basically had finished with that property other than the physical exchange and completion...keys held with EA,buyer found...job done.


Neighbours however have seen it progressing through the refurb and seen it as a soft target...it must have been known to be empty as even the "homeless"moved in...although I'm not convinced whomever moved in was homeless as they left far too easily and didn't do a great deal of damage whilst living there.


None of the neighbours when asked witnessed anything and no CCTV from other properties or businesses close by exists.


My money is on a neighbour fancying a spruced up carpet as potentially the room sizes could be similar


OP get yourself invited round to all the locals houses and see if you can spot your cooker hood.


What are local crime statistics like in the area OP? Is petty crime an issue...

Is it a close knit area where they look after their own and an outsider either in the form of a developer(the vendor) or you the purchaser could be viewed as an outsider coming in.

I've always found if you want to know anything going on in a neighbourhood ask around,theres one thing that neighbours love to talk about...their neighbours and the neighbourhood they live in.
Seems strange not one person has admitted to seeing the comings and goings of an empty property over the 12 months before the OP completed on it.