County Court Claim Form Recieved - Excel - BW Legal

SavvySavey

I understand the forum is very busy at the moment but would someone please be willing to help with the above?


My court date is imminent and I want to be prepared.

nosferatu1001

5) Of course! READ the case and note *it was dismissed* because the signs WERENT adequate
If you prove they werent adequate theyve cited a case which says the result is no contract...

6) You can point out that either they have no clue what theyre talking about, or theyre trying ti mislead the court. They cant have it both ways

7) Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Ask how a notice to the driver of a vehicle - explicitly so - is not a NtD. That it doesnt meet the requirements in POFA to engage Keeper LIability doesnt mean it ISNT a NtD, its just not a *comliant* one

8) They ha 1080 and they used.... when they could have used all 1080
NOthing stopped them - apart from their own cut price approach to legal claims - from issuing further particulars. In fact MCOL *specifically* allows this method. They cannot rely on letters which may or may not have been served earlier no to avoid their obligations under the PD

9) Well they will do! theyre never going to agree... so you jyust hav to show this.

10) Pretty much all of that. Just never use "I" "she" or "he" 0- the DRIVER needed to...

11) Yes, you require the proof of this - if they havent evidenced it then it is simply an assertion. EDIT YOUR BLOODY POST so they cant work it out!

What did your SAR to them show? You did one I presume??

12) Its not up to them to rely on POFA or not
POFA strictly limits your liability to that on the NtK
THe sign creates no certainty and wasnt in any case accepttd by the keeper or driver
£60 is not an amount incurred by them and, as all the cases youve read about have shown, was EXCLUDED from Bravis as not being recoverable. It is a penalty therefore and NOT a cost of the contract

YOUR INDEX
(dnot use two indexes starting the same, confusing. One index only, or do 1,2,3,4 then a,b,c,d then i,ii,iii, iv etc)

1) Yep it shows there is an incentive for them to catch people out
2) Not a clue what youre trying to say with this. Be specific.
3) Not true. Your point of contact is BW Legal, but Excel are allowed to file their own WS. no probvlem with that and NOT detrimental to you
4) when did you complain to the iCO and heres the ref number...etc? aHaveyou evidenced this? Wheres your chase SINCE the first time?

SavvySavey

Thank you for all your help. I'll put together a proper skeleton argument now.



Just to clarify some points that you bought up

What did your SAR to them show? You did one I presume??

Yes. In short it was very much a template letter asking for all the details, how they aquired them and where they've shared them. Ironically they've now sent (most) of this after the deadline for my WS. I had chased and then filed an ICO complaint after the 30 day deadline. I've now also chased for the missing information (how they acquired my data)

2. The Titles of letters are misleading often having more than one title or slightly renamed titles, perhaps to make it difficult to understand their true intentions, sound more scary and harder for people to do their research and fight against them.

2) Not a clue what youre trying to say with this. Be specific.

Just as an example they've titled documents as a "Notice to Driver" and a "Parking Charge Notice"


Thanks again. I'll be putting together my skeleton argument based on all of this and think it will help massively on the actual day!!

nosferatu1001

Well the SAR should have shown where they claim you admitted to being the driver, meaning if its not there, you can point out in court that
1) Theyve made a claim and included no evidence of this
2) Your SAR to them also showed no evidence of this
So on BoP theyre !!!!!!!!ting, again.

The invoice is always a PCN
The one to the driver is the NtD
The one to the keeper is NTK
But theyre ALL a PCN.

SavvySavey

Thanks for your help again.


The only thing on the SAR which could "prove" I admitted to being the driver is my appeal to them which is obviously an online form that generated a letter to them that says:



"Note: Driver was the selected choice."


Again, I don't recall choosing such a choice, but is a computer generated letter sufficient evidence?

SavvySavey

Thank you for everyone's help so far! On the home stretch now.


So here is what I've proposed for my skeleton argument. I've tried to do my reasearch around it but advice and examples seem less consistant at this stage. Anyway, I'm quite happy with it, but please tell me if I'm completely off the mark :laugh:


Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated!


SKELETON ARGUMENT REMOVED - WAS TOO LONG

Le_Kirk

Seems a bit long for a skeleton!

SavvySavey

I thought that but a lot of the examples I saw, including ones linked to in the Newbies thread, were longer. If all the points are good, should I just trim down on the detail?

Le_Kirk

A skeleton argument is just that, a skeleton or bare bones of your case, used as an aide memoire without flesh on the bones because that is your defence, witness statement, costs schedule and evidence already submitted. Advice I found: -

Skeleton Arguments summarise what you will say to the judge at the hearing. It's a broad outline. It is not meant to contain everything that you might say to the judge.

Umkomaas

Le_Kirk wrote: »

A skeleton argument is just that, a skeleton or bare bones of your case, used as an aide memoire without flesh on the bones because that is your defence, witness statement, costs schedule and evidence already submitted. Advice I found: -

Not forgetting that the OP is unlikely to get any more than a couple of minutes to say anything, a Skeleton Argument, extending to over 2,500 words, runs the risk of the Judge not allowing him to say anything at all!