PayPal claim rejected - what next?

peachyprice

Ok, long story short:

I bought a phone direct from Sony, using PayPal credit, on 16/02/19

On 11/03/19 the backlight failed so the screen was blank making the phone unuseable, obviously.

On 12/03 I phoned Sony and was asked to perform a number of prodedures that I couldn't, because the screen was blank. I eventually did a full system restore through my laptop, which didn't work.

Went back to Sony, was then told use link to fill in form for a repair, which resulted in being told the service wasn't available in the UK.

Went back to Sony, seriously pee'd off now, asked for a refund as was rejecting a phone that failed within 30 days, as per my consumer rights and their published T&Cs for UK. Was told they couldn't do that, they weren't authorised. They then tried to say the phone failed after 30 days, so still no entitlement to a refund. This went on for 2 weeks, I needed a phone so bought an identical one elsewhere

Raised a claim with PayPal Credit, them being equally liable as credit providers. On the drop down menu when you raise a claim there is not an option of 'item not working' so chose the next nearest which was 'item not as described'.

In the meantime Sony arranged phone to be collected, but for a replacement, not a refund, which was no good to me now. Phoned PayPal, they said don't let them take it as I'm entitled to a refund, hold on to it until they agree to refund me.

Kept phone, replied to Sony saying I was entitled to a refund could they please arrange that, heard nothing so stupidly left claim with PayPal believing I would eventually get the refund through them as the law was on my side.

Yesterday PayPal closed the case and denied the claim.

I'm now left with a phone that failed within 30 days, no refund from seller, no refund form PayPal. I feel completely shafted.

What do i do next? Small Claims? Against Sony or PayPal? The phone was only £135, not a fortune but very frustrating nonetheless.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Why was the Paypal claim not found in your favour?

Have you tried to escalate a complaint with Sony?

Worth noting when exercising the short term right to reject the assumption that a fault is inherently doesn't apply and you can be required to demonstrate such.

peachyprice

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Why was the Paypal claim not found in your favour?

Have you tried to escalate a complaint with Sony?

Worth noting when exercising the short term right to reject the assumption that a fault is inherently doesn't apply and you can be required to demonstrate such.

The claim was not found in my favour because:

"We've reviewed the transaction(s) and are denying your claim(s). This decision was made because if an item is materially similar to the seller's description, we do not consider it to be significantly not as described". SNAD was the most appropriate category to raise the claim.

I was willing to send the phone back to Sony be inspected pending a refund, but they were only accepting a return for firstly a repair then eventually a replacement. I responded to Sony and asked them to raise an RMA for a refund, not a replacement, they ignored me from that point forward. I then followed PayPal advice of not returning the phone unless it was for inspection for a refund.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Paypals not as described process doesn't act as a product warranty so wouldn't cover an item developing a fault which is what they seem to be saying.

When you contact Sony is this by phone or by email? Can you phone them and speak to someone in the UK or Ireland?

If so might be easier to ask your complaint to be escalated to a supervisor/manager, etc

If it's an overseas call centre probably a waste of time and a letter before action might see them resolve the problem for you.

peachyprice

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Paypals not as described process doesn't act as a product warranty so wouldn't cover an item developing a fault which is what they seem to be saying.

When you contact Sony is this by phone or by email? Can you phone them and speak to someone in the UK or Ireland?

If so might be easier to ask your complaint to be escalated to a supervisor/manager, etc

If it's an overseas call centre probably a waste of time and a letter before action might see them resolve the problem for you.

I wasn't making a warranty claim against paypal, rather a section 75, but there is no way of selecting that option, but I don't believe that not giving that option resolves them of their S75 obligations. They can't simply say we're not going to let you choose S75 so therefore you can't make a S75 claim. This is PayPal Credit, not PayPal.

I have spoken to Sony on the phone and by email. Same response, on the phone they say they can't authorise a refund, emails they ignore, and it just goes round in circles.

When I pointed out that their own T&Cs say I'm entitled to a refund they tried to tell me I hadn't informed them within 30 days of purchase. They have done everything they can to avoid refunding me.

theonlywayisup

As above, Paypal SNAD isn't a warranty. I am not familiar with PayPal credit, so you would need to scrutinise your T&C with them to see what you can raise a claim for - AFAIK they don't come under UK law but happy to be corrected.

You give dates in your OP but you don't give the date you filled in the form and were told they couldn't service you, or the date that you asked for a refund. Were they outside the 30days?

brianposter

This thread is about claiming from Paypal
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5872385/paypal-and-small-claims-court&highlight=paypal&page=6


but it would probably be preferal to claim from Sony.

dj1471

Raise a formal complaint with PayPal, then escalate to the financial ombudsman as necessary.

If that fails you can instigate small claims jointly against Sony and PayPal under Section 75.

peachyprice

theonlywayisup wrote: »

As above, Paypal SNAD isn't a warranty. I am not familiar with PayPal credit, so you would need to scrutinise your T&C with them to see what you can raise a claim for - AFAIK they don't come under UK law but happy to be corrected.

You give dates in your OP but you don't give the date you filled in the form and were told they couldn't service you, or the date that you asked for a refund. Were they outside the 30days?

From the T&C's:

10.3. Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 means that if you use your Credit Account to purchase
an item that costs between £100 and £30,000, you may have the ability to bring a claim against us
as well as the Merchant if the Merchant breaches their contract with you or the goods or services do
not match the Merchant’s description.

As for dates
Purchased 16 feb
failed 11 mar
Contacted Sony 12 Mar
Contacted PayPal 15 Mar

All within 30 days of purchase

wesleyad

I'd say you have two routes.

You go back to Paypal and ask how you start a S75 claim as the website doesn't allow this, hence why you clicked SNAD. Ask what do you do in the case of a broken item.

And/Or go back to Sony. Don't mess around quoting their own T&Cs, quote the CRA 2015 and tell them they have one chance to refund before they receive a letter before action and get taken to small claims.

Good luck