Fire doors as part of loft conversion

thetoothfairy

I’ve had numerous quotes from companies to convert our loft and many are saying we don’t need to change our existing Victorian doors to fire doors as they are solid (though they’re not) and smoke alarms will suffice.

I don’t think this is correct but they all say building control will sign it off.

Why would they not want to change the doors to fire doors? Surely it’s required and would it not nullify our insurance should a fire occur (not to mention put us at risk)?

Any advice welxome

buglawton

In my case the door to the loft conversion itself had to be a fire resistant door. After that there were 2 major options: Either have fire doors to all rooms to the escape route from loft to outdoors, or install a 'ganged' series of mains powered smoke alarms. If one goes off, they all do.

We went for the single fire door and alarms. Otherwise a very expensive fire door to kitchen (we wanted glass panes in it like before) would have been needed.

It all passed the fire regs sign off in 2016.
But regs, and the interpretation of them, do change over time.

My suggestion is, appoint your building inspector before you accept a quote and have the inspector give the nod to the proposed fire regs solution in advance. Mine was happy to answer my extra questions during the build, too.

Mr_Singleton

Wanted to point out that I know somebody who said that fire doors saved lives when he had a fire. Regardless of what your told I'd have them fitted.

thetoothfairy

Thanks both- we are in no way trying to not have them. I’m just intrigued as to why so many builders seem to not want to fit them and say they aren’t needed - when to me the building regs seem pretty certain you do.

It’s confusing

Fire_Fox

The current Building Regulations are on the Planning Portal. Read the small print on your home insurance, and guidance on the website of your local Fire Service.

Smoke, harmful fumes or a fire itself can move within walls, within ceiling or floor voids, then come out of holes and gaps, for example around light fittings or where water pipes emerge.

Unless your rooms/ zones are 'fire compartments', and fire doors are closed other than when you are actually walking around, fire doors are not going to protect you as much as a decent smoke alarm system will. Having your internal doors on closures is a PITA, many of us in apartments use doorstops.

HTH.

Doozergirl

Self closing doors haven't been a requirement for many years.

It might be that building control assess solid, original doors as being of similar quality to fire doors. Building control have always been keen to check ours as being fire doors though.

The only time we've not replaced the doors is in listed house, but the listing trumps building control and we're still asked to use fire retardant paint.

tacpot12

The builders probably don't want to fit them because they are short of joiners. Fitting large numbers of identical doors isn't a interesting job for a joiner, so if the builder has limited joiner time available, they will want to exclude work that they know their joiners will complain about. Much easier to tell the client it's not required and leave the risk with the client.

I would just make sure that your contract with the builder makes them clearly responsible for obtaining building control approval for the loft conversion, and I would hold back 25% of the cost of the conversion until you have this approval.

Personally I think fire doors offer very limited additional protection in a single family home. In a house in multiple occupation, they make much more sense. I'm happy with mains operated and interlinked smoke detectors covering the escape route from our loft conversion.

Doozergirl

25% tacpot?! Any builder would be subsidising any work at that ridiculous sort of retention. Either you trust the builder to do it or you don't.

A loft conversion is a pretty chunky job for a chippy - they're probably the most important trade - and doors come as a standard part of that. Sure, some woodwork is more exciting than others, but if you don't like hanging doors and you're a carpenter, you're probably in the wrong job!

thetoothfairy

Thank you all. I understand the drawbacks of fire doors in terms of not closing them when it’s simply not practical to do so. But I don’t want a fire to happen and then our insurance to say we didn’t have them fitted.

Even if building control sign it off with existing doors, presumably the onus legally is on us? Is that correct?

That’s a good point about joiners availability and the type of work involved in fitting doors. That would explain some of the reluctance

Doozergirl

Legal onus on you for what? If it's signed off, it's signed off.

The only onus past that point is self- preservation. It doesn't matter what doors you have if you don't shut them and there's a fire.

We fit fire doors in two storey houses as standard anyway. Who doesn't want a nice quality door?!

Mistral001

The Building regulations are not a manual on how to build buildings or how to design them either. Nowadays there is a tendency for builders and some building designers to treat them as a manual rather than regulations.


So if a building designer or a contractor tell you that you do not need something because the Building regulations do not require it, then I would wonder about the quality of service that you are getting.