Cancel car order - reservation fee and refund

neilmcl

papaface wrote: »

I didn't sign or agree to any terms that refer to the refund-ability of the "deposit". I think it's important to focus on what I have actually signed or been told rather than what I should have been told. That's the point of my original post. I know what a deposit it does, but deposits aren't always non-refundable. It's common-place to pay a deposit when you rent a house, you get that back.

What do you think the purpose of the deposit is in this case, if they're always going to be refundable then what's the point? Comparing it to a house rental deposit doesn't make sense, it's not the same thing at all, rental deposits are there to protect the renter against damage/loss etc.

You've made a commitment to purchase the car so you can't expect to get some or all of your deposit back, however the chances are that you most probably will.

papaface

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

You'll get your money back I'm sure, but it's a lesson for the future: Understand what you're committing to before handing over sums of money.

Your house analogy is flawed. You get your deposit back when you complete the rental period and vacate the property. That's entirely different to committing to buy a car and then backing out.

Yeah it is different, except the terms and the refund-ability of the deposit are set out before you send the deposit. Not in this case. There were no terms laid down.

Arklight wrote: »

If the company has printed terms and conditions then you agreed to them when you paid, even if you didn't see them. If they state the deposit is not returnable you are not likely to get it back.

If the company really hasn't put this in writing anywhere you should stand a decent chance of getting it back.

It's actually not relevant whether they showed them to you, or if they were even available in printed form from the point of contact.

It's assumed the customer would avail themselves beforehand.

I've read the terms and conditions and no where does it say anything about deposits or reservation fees. The only place where this is stated is on the receipt that I received 2 weeks after I had paid the fee and those terms on the receipt were not communicated to me prior to payment of the deposit.

unholyangel wrote: »

You can only be bound by terms you had the opportunity to become acquainted with prior to entering the contract. You cannot be bound by hidden terms. Nor can you retrospectively apply or alter terms to a contract - you can only be bound by the obligations/terms you agreed to accept at the time of entering the contract.

However, all that does is mean they can't rely on the term saying its a reservation fee/non refundable. It doesn't mean that it is refundable. It would be subject to the normal rules of damages for breach of contract.

Agreed, I expect them to deduct a nominal amount from the deposit for admin costs.

neilmcl wrote: »

What do you think the purpose of the deposit is in this case, if they're always going to be refundable then what's the point? Comparing it to a house rental deposit doesn't make sense, it's not the same thing at all, rental deposits are there to protect the renter against damage/loss etc.

You've made a commitment to purchase the car so you can't expect to get some or all of your deposit back, however the chances are that you most probably will.

It's often a show of intent that you're a serious buyer if you're able to stump up a deposit. It doesn't always mean it's non-refundable. Comparing it to a house rental deposit makes complete sense as the point I was making is that not all deposits are non-refundable!





In truth I'm not too bothered about getting the money back but £500 is £500 and maybe they can use this opportunity to learn and improve their processes going forward.
All of this may be moot anyway as they haven't yet responded to my request for cancellation :rotfl:

eschaton

What did you think the purpose of a deposit was?

eschaton

papaface wrote: »

Comparing it to a house rental deposit makes complete sense as the point I was making is that not all deposits are non-refundable!

It might make sense in your world but not in other people’s worlds.

It’s your lack of sense that has got you into this situation.

Takmon

papaface wrote: »

Yeah it is different, except the terms and the refund-ability of the deposit are set out before you send the deposit. Not in this case. There were no terms laid down.

I've read the terms and conditions and no where does it say anything about deposits or reservation fees. The only place where this is stated is on the receipt that I received 2 weeks after I had paid the fee and those terms on the receipt were not communicated to me prior to payment of the deposit.

To form a contract terms can also be oral so it doesn't have to be written down and they could just say they told it was non-refundable. You must have asked if it the deposit was refundable because it would be pretty silly paying £500 and not even asking.

papaface wrote: »

It's often a show of intent that you're a serious buyer if you're able to stump up a deposit. It doesn't always mean it's non-refundable. Comparing it to a house rental deposit makes complete sense as the point I was making is that not all deposits are non-refundable!

Well if you want to compare it to a house deposit then when you rent a house you pay a deposit and if you comply with the terms of the contract you get it back at the end. If you broke the contract for example by not paying the rent they won't refund the deposit.

So in your case of the car you broke the oral contract that you agreed to buy the car and haven't paid for the car as agreed so therefore you are not entitled to your deposit back, if you follow the same logic.

Mercdriver

Surely the time to have objected would have been when they notified you that it was non refundable. You've allowed a further 5/6 weeks to elapse. You will likely get it back, but it could be argued that after 6 weeks, you have been seen to accept those conditions.

Arklight

unholyangel wrote: »

You can only be bound by terms you had the opportunity to become acquainted with prior to entering the contract. You cannot be bound by hidden terms. Nor can you retrospectively apply or alter terms to a contract - you can only be bound by the obligations/terms you agreed to accept at the time of entering the contract.

However, all that does is mean they can't rely on the term saying its a reservation fee/non refundable. It doesn't mean that it is refundable. It would be subject to the normal rules of damages for breach of contract.

This is very misleading. Under British consumer law, companies are under no obligation to explicitly volunteer their official terms and conditions to a customer before the customer binds themselves to them by paying money.

If they are asked for, then what is provided must be accurate and in full, but it is usually up to the customer to ask first.

Company representatives, if asked, should provide accurate information about their TCs, but proving they didn't can be very difficult unless phone conversations were recorded or there is something in writing.

If you book a holiday of a lifetime for Great Aunt Maude over the phone with a travel agent, for instance, you will be bound by their terms and conditions unless they contravene your statutory rights. Which means that when Aunt Maude decides she can't go, 6 weeks later you will not be able to cancel and refund the booking even though the information telling you this is in one of dozens of pages of size 8 font in the back of a brochure sitting in the agent's high street shop.

It appears the OP neither asked the rep whether the deposit was refundable, or asked to take a copy of the TC schedule away to read before deciding whether to pay the £500. If they do ask for a copy of the TC schedule now, I suspect it will say that deposits are non refundable, in which case they are out of luck. If it doesn't they are in luck and can get their money back.

:money:

Arklight

papaface wrote: »

Yeah it is different, except the terms and the refund-ability of the deposit are set out before you send the deposit. Not in this case. There were no terms laid down.

I've read the terms and conditions and no where does it say anything about deposits or reservation fees. The only place where this is stated is on the receipt that I received 2 weeks after I had paid the fee and those terms on the receipt were not communicated to me prior to payment of the deposit.

The documentation they sent you is not the same thing as a schedule of official terms and conditions for whatever transaction you entered into, unless this is stated.

You need to ask to see the TCs that explicitly were in force regarding your reservation, at the time you made it, and see if this allows you a refund.

DoaM

Arklight wrote: »

This is very misleading. Under British consumer law, companies are under no obligation to explicitly volunteer their official terms and conditions to a customer before the customer binds themselves to them by paying money.

If they are asked for, then what is provided must be accurate and in full, but it is usually up to the customer to ask first.

Company representatives, if asked, should provide accurate information about their TCs, but proving they didn't can be very difficult unless phone conversations were recorded or there is something in writing.

If you book a holiday of a lifetime for Great Aunt Maude over the phone with a travel agent, for instance, you will be bound by their terms and conditions unless they contravene your statutory rights. Which means that when Aunt Maude decides she can't go, 6 weeks later you will not be able to cancel and refund the booking even though the information telling you this is in one of dozens of pages of size 8 font in the back of a brochure sitting in the agent's high street shop.

It appears the OP neither asked the rep whether the deposit was refundable, or asked to take a copy of the TC schedule away to read before deciding whether to pay the £500. If they do ask for a copy of the TC schedule now, I suspect it will say that deposits are non refundable, in which case they are out of luck. If it doesn't they are in luck and can get their money back.

:money:

There's so much wrong with this that I'm not even going to bother. :eek:

Mercdriver

I don't think a contract could be considered fair if you have not been given the opportunity the view the terms of the contract. However, I'm puzzled why you didn't exercise your right to object at the time you received them, instead waiting 5/6 weeks.