Clarification on NTK and PCN

Tedster90

Without all of the prior details I basically received a PCN for a vehicle that I am the registered keeper of, there was no windscreen ticket at the time.

It is from Smart Parking, the first later did not expressly state it was a "Notice to Keeper" letter but a "Parking Charge Notice" letter which included pictures and details of the alleged offence. This was produced on 29/03/19 with the date of the week after the alleged contravention being 22/03/19.

I took no action, fast forward a couple of weeks and another letter turns up which is titled "Notice to Owner" saying as no response was received they have got my details as the owner from the DVLA blah blah blah. This letter is dated 16/04/19. Is this the NTK letter that people talk about on this forum or is the first one deemed an NTK letter? Also this letter states the original notice date was 28/03/19 when that actual letter is dated 29/03/19, does this make any difference?

I am about to send off the initial appeal template on the online portal as detailed in the Newbie thread. Just wanted some clarification going forward.

Thanks in advance

Fruitcake

If the first letter was a Parking Charge Notice sent to the registered keeper, then by definition it is a notice to keeper so should not have been ignored.

Send the template anyway but don't be surprised if you are told it is too late to appeal.

The dates are irrelevant if the NTK was received by day 14, but you need to check the wording to see if it is PoFA complaint or not.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam.

Redx

the NTK is the first parking charge notice received in the post

Notice To Keeper , as in the keeper named on the V5C if the vehicle is privately owned

Tedster90

Ahh damn, was hoping they had slipped up there.

The land owner is a pub and they don't care whatsoever, they just refer you to Smart Parking. Their TripAdvisor rating is down to 1 star in relation to the many, many complaints voiced in the comments about predatory parking tactics.

Haven't spoken to MP yet, cant see how it will directly influence the parking charge notice.

Sounds like I might have shot myself in the foot here as the keeper by not responding to the first letter.

Fruitcake

Tedster90 wrote: »

Ahh damn, was hoping they had slipped up there.

The land owner is a pub and they don't care whatsoever, they just refer you to Smart Parking. Their TripAdvisor rating is down to 1 star in relation to the many, many complaints voiced in the comments about predatory parking tactics.

Haven't spoken to MP yet, cant see how it will directly influence the parking charge notice.

Sounds like I might have shot myself in the foot here as the keeper by not responding to the first letter.

It definitely won't affect it if you don't contact him/her.

Have you read up on the parliamentary debates an new parking act recently introduced? It only happened because people complained to their MPs.

Mark2spark

Seems to me that the first letter was indeed the NtK. Unless the name and address was clearly posted inside the vehicle then they wouldn't know who the keeper was, would they?
My tuppence worth - I'm no expert - is to request SAR and see if there's a slip up on the dates of posting the PCN/NtK, - if there is you might be able to argue for appeal to be allowed saying you didn't receive the letter.

Tedster90

Also, the alleged contravention was for a period of 14 mins between entry and exit recorded by ANPR camera, is there any leg to stand on there?

Mark2spark

Seemingly there would be so, as there is a grace period (10 minutes) to enter, park, read the parking signs, agree to the t & c's (forming a parking contract), and also a similar grace period of 10 minutes to leave the car park once parking is complete.
You need to post up a picture of the PCN with the obvious personal details omitted to gain further advice. You are just giving out snippets and the whole picture requires scrutiny.

Mark2spark

You'll also need to post a picture of the parking sign on display at the venue so that the t & c's can be seen.
If it's a pay and display place, for instance, on a 14 minute turnaround recorded by ANPR, you could claim to have entered, stopped, read the t & c's, decided not to park, and left the car park forthwith, having decided not to enter into a parking contract.

Coupon-mad

was hoping they had slipped up there.

They probably have slipped up, given that Smart have never used POFA wording.

Presumably you've now checked BOTH letters against the POFA and found nothing properly resembling the 9(2)f warning that the registered keeper will be liable?

Issuing a NTO is new for Smart. I doubt they have POFA 9(2)f wording on either?

To be clear I am NOT telling you not to submit the template - you MUST, this week.

Umkomaas

Tedster90 wrote: »

The land owner is a pub and they don't care whatsoever, they just refer you to Smart Parking. Their TripAdvisor rating is down to 1 star in relation to the many, many complaints voiced in the comments about predatory parking tactics.

Send the hotel a copy of this (or the link) about how Smart Parking’s predatory business model brought this hotel to its knees!

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/loggerheads-mold-car-park-fines-13774891