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Gemini parking charge POPLa appeal help

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Gemini parking charge POPLa appeal help

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
28 replies 1.1K views
RuskhatRuskhat Forumite
15 posts
edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
Please help with a good advice. I have 2 tickets from Gemini for parking in Gambado site and overstaying the 3 hour free parking by something line 31 and 40 min on a weekend (both Sat and Sun), while the child was playing in the soft play centre. Never knew that we must pay parking if staying over 3 hours and how to do it.
My main concern is if I have any chance to argue these charges.
I appealed to the company as a registered keeper not identifying the driver using the Newbies template. My appeals got refused and I need a good reason for appealing through POPLa.
I emailed the CEO of Gambado to ask for help cancelling the tickets but he replied saying that they don't have a contract with Gemini and it is owned by the neighbouring football club the parking space of which they share with.
The genuine reason is that we never noticed there was a sign on entrance saying there is ANPR camera used and terms. After the incident I investigated the area and realised there are signs with info and contract terms, which are in a very small font. The signs can be very difficult to see when other cars are parked they block the view of signs, and this parking area is very busy on weekends. I also read the BPA rules on parking signs and it seems that although Gemini managed to maintain the recommended size of the sign the important details are in a very small font and can't be legible from a parked car even if parked right in front of the sign. The entrance sign is very disproportionate to other signs that it is unnoticeable even if you drive through the gates very slowly. they put the entrance sign to the opposite side of the driver, which makes it even more difficult to notice.
Please could anybody give a good advice if I have any chance to win the appeal and what points should I focus on.

Thank you in advance
«13

Replies

  • edited 22 April 2019 at 11:08AM
    FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    edited 22 April 2019 at 11:08AM
    Use all the template appeal points available to you from post 3 of the NEWBIES, including the very long inadequate signage point.

    These would normally include,
    Not the landowner
    No standing to bring charges
    Inadequate signage
    Non PoFA compliant NTK

    and anything else relevant.

    Get your own pics, and even video, of the entrance, site, and signage.
    Compare these with the BPA CoP and any provided to you by the scammers themselves. Then point out all flaws.

    Have you checked that the NTK is compliant with the PoFA 2012?

    Post your draft appeal here for checking before you submit it.

    Check with the council planning department to see if there is planning approval for the cameras and advertising consent for the sings. Not having the latter is a criminal offence.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
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  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    Please could anybody give a good advice if I have any chance to win the appeal and what points should I focus on.
    You carefully appealed as keeper (not driver) yet you haven't even mentioned the NTK and whether it's a POFA one, even though the POFA is linked in the NEWBIES thread for everyone to check their NTKs against the wording.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • RuskhatRuskhat Forumite
    15 posts
    Apologies for the delay to respond.
    The NKT seems to be compliant with POFA, they sent the NKT by post within the required timeframe and gave sufficient time from the date of issue of NKT (different to the date of “Offence”). They are listed in the BPA member list. In the NKT they mention:
    If after 28 days they don’t receive full payment or driver details, under schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 they have right, subject to requirements of the act, to recover the parking charge amount from the keeper of vehicle.
    I checked the signs and measured the size of headings and how they use logo and mention all contract details. Everything seems to be in line with minimum requirements of the BPA code of practice, just big enough to comply for the headlines.
  • RuskhatRuskhat Forumite
    15 posts
    Just to clarify the NKT was issued within 14 days of the day of “offence”
  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    Ruskhat wrote: »
    Just to clarify the NKT was issued within 14 days of the day of “offence”
    But it needs to be issued so that it arrives with the keeper within those 14 days.
  • RuskhatRuskhat Forumite
    15 posts
    Thank you. I should have the envelope still, but it arrived by ordinary post, so the date will be only the date of franking. The NKTs were issued 5 and 8 days after the “offences” respectively. I think they allow 2 -3 days for delivery, if I’m not mistaken.
    The NKTs say there are 14 days from the date of issue for me to pay.
  • edited 22 April 2019 at 9:28PM
    KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    edited 22 April 2019 at 9:28PM
    Ruskhat wrote: »
    Thank you. I should have the envelope still, but it arrived by ordinary post, so the date will be only the date of franking. The NKTs were issued 5 and 8 days after the “offences” respectively. I think they allow 2 -3 days for delivery, if I’m not mistaken.
    The NKTs say there are 14 days from the date of issue for me to pay.
    What is the issue date of the NtK?
    What day of the week is that?
    It is deemed delivered two working days following the issue date.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    n the NKT they mention:
    If after 28 days they don’t receive full payment or driver details, under schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 they have right, subject to requirements of the act, to recover the parking charge amount from the keeper of vehicle.
    That 28 day period is NOT POFA-compliant, unless you have badly paraphrased it.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • RuskhatRuskhat Forumite
    15 posts
    the issue dates of the NTK are 7 Mar - which was Thursday, i did receive the letter on Sunday (10 Mar)
    the other one was from 11 Mar - Monday, which i believe came around Wedns/thursday 14 March. Unfortunately both are within the 14 days.

    But, there seems to be some hope, I have not paraphrased the wording from he NTK on POFA.
    It actually says: "If after 28 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protections of Freedom Act 2012 we have the right, subject to requirements the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle."

    Thank you very much for pointing out.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    i did receive the letter on Sunday (10 Mar)
    Impossible.

    No post is received on a Sunday except courier deliveries and it won't have been that.
    But, there seems to be some hope, I have not paraphrased the wording from he NTK on POFA.
    It actually says: "If after 28 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protections of Freedom Act 2012 we have the right, subject to requirements the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle."

    Thank you very much for pointing out.
    Yep, that's why I asked. I expected that non compliant wording!

    Gemini have never managed POFA wording, to my memory.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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