Tenant or Lodger

donaldfleming

00ec25 wrote: »

with respect you do not know the first thing about housing law and everything you have said is wrong in the context of the Op's question

What does Op stand for?

G_M

theartfullodger wrote: »

NB: In Scotland (sensible country..) a "lodger" is anyway a common-law tenant, eviction only possible via FTT or Sheriff court.
http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/legal/security_of_tenure/common_law_tenants_and_non-tenant_occupiers

Hi artful. Looking at the ShelterScotland link (incidentally, very impressed by the new PRT tenancies!), I note two things perhaps relevant here:

What is a private residential tenancy?

A private residential tenancy is one that meets the following conditions:

• the tenancy started on or after 1 December 2017
• it is let to you as a separate dwelling (home)
• you must be an individual, meaning not a company
• it's your main or only home
• you must have a lease (although a written agreement is not needed for a lease to exist)
• the tenancy is not an exempt tenancy, as listed below.

and two:

Tenancies that can not be private residential tenancy

Almost all new private tenancies created on or after 1st December 2017 will be private residential tenancies.
However, there are a number of exemptions, including the following:

• Tenancies at a low rent
• Tenancies of shops
• Licensed premises
• Tenancies of agricultural land
• Lettings to students (meaning purpose built student accommodation)
• Holiday lettings
• Resident landlords
• Police Housing
• Military Housing
• Social Housing
• Sublet, assigned etc. social housing
• Homeless persons
• Persons on probation or released from prison etc.
• Accommodation for asylum seekers
• Displaced persons
• Shared ownership
• Tenancies under previous legislation
• Assured or short assured tenancies

Does this potentially alter things, or is the fact that a Scotish 'lodger' is a common law tenat mean that this would still be a PRT?

theartfullodger

Cheers G_M: My understanding (I am but an amateur..) is that a common law tenancy is not a PRT.


Can't see how landlord can claim to be a "resident" landlord in his Glasgow flat: FTT would decide if necessary.


Slàinte mhath!

00ec25

donaldfleming wrote: »

What does Op stand for?

Original Poster
Opening Post
Original Post

whichever best fits the rest of the words

G_M

theartfullodger wrote: »

Can't see how landlord can claim to be a "resident" landlord in his Glasgow flat: FTT would decide if necessary.

Slàinte mhath!

I agree 'resident landlord' would be a dubious claim, but it's not clear-cut.


And how about "it is let to you as a separate dwelling (home)"? If the LL keeps, maintains and uses one room, can it be described as 'seperate'?


I don't know.

brianposter

G_M wrote: »

I agree 'resident landlord' would be a dubious claim, but it's not clear-cut.


And how about "it is let to you as a separate dwelling (home)"? If the LL keeps, maintains and uses one room, can it be described as 'seperate'?


I don't know.

The Scottish Act appears to define a situation where the occupant has a bedroom and cooking facilities as a "separate home".
In fact the law has been drawn up so that it is not possible to make informal but perfectly sensible arrangements when it comes to housing. Obviously this results in some houses being left empty when they could be occupied.

donaldfleming

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread.


The tenant/lodger will be the person responsible for paying Council Tax on the property in Glasgow, whilst the landlord is responsible for paying Council Tax on his main residence in Edinburgh.


Is this not a clear case for the rental arrangement being classed as a tenancy, and rules out the person renting being a lodger?

CIS

The tenant/lodger will be the person responsible for paying Council Tax on the property in Glasgow

Not as far as council tax legislation is concerned - the property will be a council tax HMO for which the landlord remains liable for the council tax charge (The landlord has no choice in the matter).

00ec25

donaldfleming wrote: »

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

The tenant/lodger will be the person responsible for paying Council Tax on the property in Glasgow, whilst the landlord is responsible for paying Council Tax on his main residence in Edinburgh.

Is this not a clear case for the rental arrangement being classed as a tenancy, and rules out the person renting being a lodger?

no, how many times have you already been told what you write down on paper does not alter statute law.

statute law determines who is liable for paying council tax and what their status is for housing law purposes

in your case statute law defines (as i said earlier) a council tax HMO and that is what you have. The LL is liable in that case, never, ever the tenant or lodger.

you can of course include in your contract that the occupant has to pay you extra £ for "council tax" but that is a payment from them to you. The bill will always legally be in your name, not the occupants name.
If you make the occupant "responsible" for the bill it will back fire on you. The council has no option under the law but to chase you for all unpaid amounts, even if the occupant has paid the council directly themselves. The occupant has no legal liability to pay the council, and the council has no other legal option than to refund all monies paid by the occupant to the occupant, and then chase you for the entire now unpaid amount.

Your contract with the occupant would give you a legal basis to sue the occupant for whatever money your contract says they owe you ("the council tax") but that is a contract dispute between you and the occupant. Meantime it is you who could face fines and prison for non payment of the council tax as it is you who is legally the only person liable to pay it

this is law, it is not a matter of debate

Marvel1

donaldfleming wrote: »

The tenant/lodger will be responsible for paying the Council Tax and electricity. The landlord will be responsible for paying factors’ charges.

Does not sound fair to me, cannot claim 25% discount and will pay 100% of council tax.