Equitable Life with profits pension / takeover.

Scot_39

See links under documents at bottom of



https://www.equitable.co.uk/ProposalAug2019/index.html


For those running slightly behind others :-


The Investment pack information is now there as well - well bits of it - ( there is reference to some HL advice option doc in part 1 - if anyone wants a quick look - before they crash onto the door mat.



As others have mentioned above, one of the worrying thing about the current Utmost funds - was the 5% charge / spread on their set of 3 - and the higher upto 1.8% annual charges.


AMCs are 0.5 % lowest and 0.75% for most others - which are not terrible - and line up with Doc B.


And re those worried about the spread - for unit linked - JP Morgan say = zero %.


"Our bid and offer prices are currently the same as we do not have any initial charges or exit charges at this time."




They indicate which existing generic fund series the Utmost funds are actaully based on e.g. tracker = JPM UK Equity Index, UK Equity = JPM UK Equity Core etc. - searching for these might lead to actual fund data / investment detail / performance sheets.


Problem will be that there may be more than one variant in the fund series ( different generations - e.g. for different charging basis - income or accumulation etc. etc.).




Regards

pafpcg

Imnoexpert wrote: »

I have now received the fund choices.
No graphs or performance data only generalised descriptions.
A ftse all share tracker with an AMC of 0.5% for example doesn’t look good value.
The questions I want the answer to is what is the cost to transfer away to a SIPP as soon as the transfer into the cash fund takes place, and how long am I likely to be out of the market?
I can’t see an answer to these.

Our Investment Choices booklets arrived this morning. Two glossy booklets branded Utmost Life & Pensions, plus a brochure from Hargreaves Lansdown and the forms for selecting the desired funds.

The questions I want the answer to is what is the cost to transfer away to a SIPP as soon as the transfer into the cash fund takes place, and how long am I likely to be out of the market?
I can’t see an answer to these.

How would Utmost benefit from telling you how you could transfer to another provider? Of course they'll keep quiet about those sorts of options! Note also the stress placed on getting your investment options form returned by 13-Dec - you have to read the small print to be told we have six months from the Implementation Date (1-Jan) with the funds held in a Secure Cash Fund before choices will be automatically implemented for us (based on age of policyholder).

But to address your question - my understanding is that there will be no charge for transferring the value of your (uplifted) Equitable funds to another provider of your choice. I think all we need is a definite response from Equitable/Utmost on the process - I'd guess that our new provider will have to initiate the transfer but Utmost will have to supply us with the codes to identify our account. We would have six months to make that transfer before Utmost's automatic allocation to unit-linked funds kicks-in. Ideally, for those planning to transfer their funds to another provider, I'm sure we'd like to have a procedure available to start making the transfer arrangements so that it's triggered on the 2nd of January (to minimise loss of interest/time-out-of-market etc) especially for those policyholders who have had to defer their plans to start drawing a pension until the takeover was complete.

Scot_39 wrote: »

So looks like if the scheme happens - we will have have the choice of :
3 risk level multi-asset,
6 equity / unit linked (UK FTSE tracker, Equity by region - UK, European, US, Asia and global ),
2 Bond funds ( Govt / Corporate )
1 'money market'.

It looks like there's one missing! The Utmost booklet lists a total of 13.

I'll leave it to others to comment on the attractiveness of these funds in comparison with what else is on the market. Other than the effort to make the transfer, I see no major bar in switching to another provider with "better" products.

Finally, the Hargreaves Lansdown advice options are revealed. As expected, the options are:

Online advice: £50 (Equitable pay £150)
Telephone advice: £50 (Equitable pay £355)
Full financial advice: 1% of funds less an Equitable subsidy of £450.*

Overall, nothing surprising and little that we hadn't already anticipated. The packs are relatively smaller, so the mailing-out shouldn't need such a long period.


* Well that's what it says in the text of their brochure. But before all those of you with less than £45,000 in your fund think you can get the full HL advice for free, there's a footnote that says you'll have to pay a minimum charge of £345.

jsinc

Imnoexpert wrote: »

...The questions I want the answer to is what is the cost to transfer away to a SIPP as soon as the transfer into the cash fund takes place, and how long am I likely to be out of the market?

I can’t see an answer to these.

I called the equitable helpline to ask about any charge (mum's policy not mine). Initially said that no charge they're aware of at present. Then clarified by saying the terms and condition of policies will be unchanged, supported by The Explanatory Booklet B - p.43 55.3(a) and (b): "you will continue to have the same rights, benefits and obligations in relation to your Policy as you had immediately before the Transfer... Utmost will become your policy provider and your Policy terms and conditions will be unaffected by the Transfer"
(pdf at bottom of - https://www.equitable.co.uk/ProposalAug2019/index.html

I've yet to check the exact wording of original equitable policy, but:

"Q. Is there a financial adjustment or charge for transferring or surrendering my life policy?
A. We do not charge you to transfer your retirement savings to another company or surrender/cash in your life policy."
https://www.equitable.co.uk/policyholders/faqs/

Would be more encouraging to have this scenario clarified somewhere in the docs though.

Alzheimer

I rang the help line and requested information about the criteria they used to choose Utmost over other companies since Utmost is pretty small, and which other companies EL considered transferring to but which lost out. No one seems to have any idea! Does anyone on the forum know?

Haydnjc

The HL advice leaflet states telephone advice costs 50 pound, but their website says it costs 95 pounds! Jlt helpline also said it cost 95 pound for telephone advice from HL.

[Deleted User]

Alzheimer wrote: »

I rang the help line and requested information about the criteria they used to choose Utmost over other companies since Utmost is pretty small, and which other companies EL considered transferring to but which lost out. No one seems to have any idea! Does anyone on the forum know?

What makes you think there was a rush of companies wishing to buy EL?

Rob_in

Deleted_User wrote: »

What makes you think there was a rush of companies wishing to buy EL?

Seems to me like Utmost are going to get a pretty sweet deal. They get 261,000 new customers who they probably don't have to be particularly nice to regarding charges (or service come to think of it) as most won't even bother looking at the small print and just want and end to this mess.

I eagerly await the Investment Choice Pack which one would hope details said charges, options and any fees for transfering to another provider. It would be a shock if these turned out to be below average, but maybe my cynicism is misplaced and things will be rosy?

[Deleted User]

Rob_in wrote: »

Seems to me like Utmost are going to get a pretty sweet deal. They get 261,000 new customers who they probably don't have to be particularly nice to regarding charges (or service come to think of it) as most won't even bother looking at the small print and just want and end to this mess.

I eagerly await the Investment Choice Pack which one would hope details said charges, options and any fees for transfering to another provider. It would be a shock if these turned out to be below average, but maybe my cynicism is misplaced and things will be rosy?

I am not so sure:

- Utmost might have invested into this takeover attempt to get zilch. The courts might disallow it. Or the owners might vote “no”.
- If the takeover does go through, Utmost might lose all or most of these customers; certainly if their new funds are anything like what Utmost is offering right now.
- The customers come with long term liabilities as well as assets. And that includes potential legal challenges.
- The assets these customers are bringing in are rapidly shrinking

archer123

I am no expert, but apart from protecting the jobs of the existing EL staff, wouldn't a full & final wind-up of EL be better for most of us? We could all have our fully uplifted policy value and take it wherever we wished.

There would be no third party attempting to make something from our with-profit fund. Simple.

We would get the same uplift as offered (or more) and all other liabilities would end.

Everyone who currently works for EL knew their job had a limited 'sell-by date'.

Or am I over simplyfying it?

chazzaboy

Im concerned Ive never heard of Utmost before and appear to be a fairly new concern.Equitable also chose another company before moving to Utmost.I feel that large companies swallow up the smaller ones , are people confident about Utmost please?