Equitable Life with profits pension / takeover.

pafpcg

archer123 wrote: »

I am no expert, but apart from protecting the jobs of the existing EL staff, wouldn't a full & final wind-up of EL be better for most of us? We could all have our fully uplifted policy value and take it wherever we wished.

From my reading of the transfer proposal and assuming that the proposal is approved, on 2nd January 2020, we CAN all have our fully uplifted policy value and take it wherever we wish!

There would be no third party attempting to make something from our with-profit fund. Simple.
We would get the same uplift as offered (or more) and all other liabilities would end.

How certain are you that that's true? If Utmost are paying something in the expectation that a proportion of the Equitable policyholders will transfer funds to Utmost's management, then the uplift without Utmost would be less.

Have you read the proposal paperwork and understood the issues around the Irish & German funds? Are you sure "all other liabilities would end"?

Everyone who currently works for EL knew their job had a limited 'sell-by date'.
Or am I over simplyfying it?

Sorry, I think you are!
Self-liquidation would be very difficult, not least because staff would steadily leave (and the best staff with the skills in most demand would be the first to go). Who would be left to turn the lights off? The liquidation would have to be contracted-out to a third-party and that would inevitably be a large cost - this way Utmost shares the costs, or at least I assume so.

The Board of Equitable have not shared the details so all these comments are speculation.

archer123

True, but no company does nothing for nothing. There must be some rich picki gs, or Utmost would not be after the business!

pafpcg

Rob_in wrote: »

I eagerly await the Investment Choice Pack which one would hope details said charges, options and any fees for transfering to another provider.

If your Investment Choices pack hasn't arrived yet, you can get the details of what is being offered from the Utmost website at www.utmost.co.uk/equitable-life/equitable-pension/ or simply reading Scot_39's two posts #81 & #82 earlier in this thread.

PS: There is no reference to any charges or procedures for transferring to another provider. However, it would seem that, in accordance with Equitable's T&Cs and from reports of assurances from the helpline, there will be no charges. You should be able to transfer out on 2nd January with the full value of your uplifted funds.

steveh60

I would have thought there would have been more media coverage on this by now but I can only find the minor 'Times' & 'This is Money' articles of 4th/5th August. Have the media given up on us now too! Any other interesting articles people have found since the EL mailings?

Rob_in

pafpcg wrote: »

From my reading of the transfer proposal and assuming that the proposal is approved, on 2nd January 2020, we CAN all have our fully uplifted policy value and take it wherever we wish!

Obviously I've missed something in the massive document they sent out. Where does it say transfer to another provider is possible and how much said transfer will cost?

R

pafpcg

Rob_in wrote: »

Obviously I've missed something in the massive document they sent out. Where does it say transfer to another provider is possible and how much said transfer will cost?

You haven't missed it - I can't find it either! But as I said in earlier posts, you wouldn't expect Equitable or Utmost to point out that option because it might reduce the number of policyholders simply accepting the choices offered by Utmost.

The transfer proposal says that Equitable's policyholders will be entitled to the same rights as before and that includes our transfer rights. See the earlier posts where the helpdesk have told callers exactly that. If this is something you're worried about, ring them and ask - if enough people query them on this issue, then maybe they'll add a FAQ entry for everyone to see.

UPDATE:

I said that I couldn't find a statement in the Proposal about transferring out. However, there are at least two statements which do shed some light upon the situation:

Both are from the Explanatory Booklet Part B www.equitable.co.uk

On page 20:

22.7 If you move your benefits away from the Equitable or switch them to Unit-Linked Funds before the Implementation Date, you will not receive the Uplift. However, you do not have to keep your benefits invested with the Equitable (or, after the Implementation Date, and assuming that the Transfer goes ahead, with Utmost). Subject to the terms of your Policy, you can choose at any point, before or after the Implementation Date, to transfer your benefits away, for example, to a provider who offers with-profits benefits.

Page page 146 in section 2.4.4 of the Independent Expert's Summary Report:

All policyholders will have their funds invested in the Secure Cash Investment Fund before or at the Implementation Date. Policyholders who do not select an investment fund at the Implementation Date, will have their funds invested in the Secure Cash Investment Fund for the first six months.

Both these confirm our rights to transfer-out our funds with the full uplifted value. I cannot find a statement about transfer fees or charges.

[Deleted User]

This is the message I received from EL

Thank you for your email of 21 February 2019.



We fully expect you to have the same retirement options as you do today. No charges are currently applied for transferring or switching and although such charges are allowed under the contract, Reliance Life have assured us there are no plans to introduce them. However, that is not to say this position will not change in the future.

Joey_Soap

Just curious about all this. From a previous employer I have a deferred DB pension that has an associated AVC with EL in it's with profits fund. The AVC becomes mature at the same time as my deferred DB pension at age 65, two years time. I have heard absolutely nothing from the DB scheme trustees or EL regarding this transaction to Utmost. What's likely to happen? Will the scheme trustees vote on behalf of its members? Or am I missing out on voting? I have had nothing from the DB scheme trustees, nor EL, nor Utmost. Thanks for the advice.

christurnerchris

Its a pedantic point I Know but when you have 12 appendicies that take up 2/3 of the book , some page numbers and indication of which flipping appendix you are looking at would be nice!

christurnerchris

Appendix IV 2.3 Charges are reviewed at least annually to ensure they are fair? REviewed by who? ON what basis ?