Equitable Life with profits pension / takeover.

Eldi_Dos

HI, I had with profits AVC with previous employer who shut scheme in late 2000. Phoned Utmost who say information on my funds can only be given to the trustee of group scheme I belong to.Utmost will be sending letter out to trustee at end of month and should have details available by mid february. Just a thought if I am still in a group scheme and membership will be declining am I in a Tontine?

Malthusian

Eldi_Dos wrote: »

Just a thought if I am still in a group scheme and membership will be declining am I in a Tontine?

No, because the leaving members will be taking their funds with them, one way or another.

A Tontine is a group scheme where as people die off their share goes to the remaining members.

Tontines don't exist in the modern UK financial system. There are other forms of pooled group insurance but none in which the members expect to benefit as others die off, which is the crucial characteristic of a tontine.

Scot_39

pensionpawn wrote: »

Ok, so I've been told over the phone how much my pension is now worth after the uplift. At the same time (around three weeks ago) I was also told that I would be sent details of the uplift calculation and the transfer pack that I requested. They are yet to arrive. I believe that I can initiate a transfer from the HL end alone as they will contact Utmost. Question is, how do I know what my pension value is now, over three weeks after the uplift, and my policy number (is it the same as Equitable)?

You probably won't have to tell HL the exact amount - to do a full balance tranfer ( to move funds elsewhere - not to HL I hasten to add - I haven't in the past ).



The fund values can change daily with bond/equity prices / charges in any case - so unlikely you could get a truly accurate figure - and HL will be used to this.


If it applies - don't forget to check you get the small bonus HL offer ( 50 at 5000 to 500 at 125,000 - in steps depending on fund size).



But I suspect the Secure Cash Fund guarantee might mean your value will be the same after charges as it was on Jan 1st - as most pure cash funds I suspect struggle to beat minimum 0.5% AMC type charges at Utmost let alone inflation these days.

Scot_39

Malthusian wrote: »

No, because the leaving members will be taking their funds with them, one way or another.

A Tontine is a group scheme where as people die off their share goes to the remaining members.

Tontines don't exist in the modern UK financial system. There are other forms of pooled group insurance but none in which the members expect to benefit as others die off, which is the crucial characteristic of a tontine.

The closed EL with profits with GIR scheme was described as having a "tontine" or behaving with such a characteristic in several places - FAQ and supplementarty reports - mainly from memory by the independent expert.
Not in the strictest since - but because leavers were being asked to leave some of their fair share as EL liked to refer to it - in terms of risk capital - behind ( say 72% uplift - 35% capital distribution ) - ultimately to the benefit of those remaining - with a forecast the 35% would increase over time for those remaining.

Scot_39

cronshd wrote: »

PS - They are not doing any drawdown until March.

cronshd

Thanks for the reminder / update regarding your last post - and the need to request options - had forgot about your post when I spoke to Utmost on the phone re investment choices if staying - and decided to wait for the tranfer / uplift letter to see if this said any more.


Re your PS

Do you know if this mean no UFPLS payments (full or partial) til March - or simply that the new flexible access drawdown (FAD) option they are adding won't be ready till March ?
Did they mention any details of charges for the new FAD drawdown to you ?
I suspect given the change from 10 to 20 days delay for info other post above refers to - EL must be a little overwhelmed - so late Feb / March is probably earliest those making new requests can expect to see funds in any case.

POPPYOSCAR

I got my paperwork today to take a flexible lump sum together with my uplift figure.

It says they usually issue payment within 7 days and up to 5 days for the funds to reach the account.

Joey_Soap

Eldi_Dos wrote: »

HI, I had with profits AVC with previous employer who shut scheme in late 2000. Phoned Utmost who say information on my funds can only be given to the trustee of group scheme I belong to.Utmost will be sending letter out to trustee at end of month and should have details available by mid february. Just a thought if I am still in a group scheme and membership will be declining am I in a Tontine?

I expect in the fullness of time, that's what I will be told too. I am still waiting now for promised letter from the trustees that Mercers told me I would recieve. Apparently with "my options" explained. All I can do is wait and see now.

cronshd

Scot_39 wrote: »

cronshd


Re your PS

Do you know if this mean no UFPLS payments (full or partial) til March - or simply that the new flexible access drawdown (FAD) option they are adding won't be ready till March ?
Did they mention any details of charges for the new FAD drawdown to you ?
I suspect given the change from 10 to 20 days delay for info other post above refers to - EL must be a little overwhelmed - so late Feb / March is probably earliest those making new requests can expect to see funds in any case.

Hi Scot_39 on the PS it only arose because I enquired whether I could drawdown 25% tax free right now and then do a transfer to another provider later. The agent replied "no" because drawdown would not be available until March. I did not ask any more details about it. I'm sure a phone call would clarify any questions.

crv1963

I contacted Aylesbury just now. I was informed of what my uplifted fund is at close of business yesterday- mine is NHS AVC, no funds added since 2000. I was told the NHS Trustee will likely send me a letter anytime after the end of January but I could exercise my choice to move funds to another provider ie transfer but only after being sent an options pack which I have requested.

Options pack takes 10-15 working days to be sent out, then 10-15 working days to act on any decision to transfer, then 5-7 working days for funds to be sent on.

I was told this is because they are working flat out having not expected "everyone to either be taking their fund or transferring their fund so quickly".

New_World_Man

If EL policyholders all take out all their cash will Utmost, long term, be able to keep on all the EL back room staff that transferred over as part of the deal?

It’s not really a policyholder problem but an interesting question.