Grace Period

Agent_Gibbs

Hello,
The driver of my car has been sent a parking fine from PE.
However the driver was only on the car park for 12 mins and was unable to find a place to park and drove off, as it was mid week and after 9am so everybody was in work and there was nowhere to park.
I understand that there is a grace period in place for situations like this and would be grateful if anyone could offer some help and guidance.
Unfortunately the camera only shows the car arriving and leaving the car park and not the effort being made to find a place to park.

Cheers

Keith

Redx

see the BPA CoP , january 2018 edition, clause #13 (download and read it)

looking for a space is not parking so frustration of contract comes into it

BUT , for now , the KEEPER appeals it as KEEPER (no blabbing about who was driving) , on the PE website , using the blue text template from the NEWBIES sticky thread

then take it to popla

KeithP

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Agent_Gibbs

Redx wrote: »

see the BPA CoP , january 2018 edition, clause #13 (download and read it)

looking for a space is not parking so frustration of contract comes into it

BUT , for now , the KEEPER appeals it as KEEPER (no blabbing about who was driving) , on the PE website , using the blue text template from the NEWBIES sticky thread

then take it to popla

Yes I see what mean about "frustration of contract" and also clause 13 states a "reasonable grace period to leave" so 12mins acceptable.

Also is it correct that POPLA will not accept an appeal unless there has been an appeal to PE first?

beamerguy

Agent_Gibbs wrote: »

Yes I see what mean about "frustration of contract" and also clause 13 states a "reasonable grace period to leave" so 12mins acceptable.

Also is it correct that POPLA will not accept an appeal unless there has been an appeal to PE first?

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods

You have to appeal and then PE will send you a POPLA code

Agent_Gibbs

That link you an interesting read "No time limit is specified"

If I understand correctly PE are charged by POPLA to get the POPLA code?

Redx

it could be argued that 10 minutes is the "grace period", according to the BPA CoP, but there is also the ten minutes to leave, especially if no parking was possible , hence the argument of frustration of contract bolted onto grace periods


I am sure that whilst waiting for a space the driver was blocked in and so had trouble exiting the car park as well !!!


PE lost this argument in court 5 years ago

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

Agent_Gibbs

KeithP

Name changed thanks for the help

Coupon-mad

Have you got a phone or dashcam that has recorded the ACTUAL time on site?

We've seen people expose that 12 minutes was actually nine or ten (i.e. within the minimum, and that the ANPR cameras are not sychronised, and can sometimes lie about the timings by a couple of minutes). Any chance you can expose the skewed lie between the in/out camera clocks?

If not, then at POPLA stage, POPLA like it if your evidence includes proof of where you went instead, i.e. if you paid for parking 5 minutes later, down the road at x car park, that's ideal.

Not needed for first appeal, which is merely a POPLA code harvesting stage.

Did the PCN arrive by day 15 and does it mention the POFA in the middle on the back?

Agent_Gibbs

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Have you got a phone or dashcam that has recorded the ACTUAL time on site?

We've seen people expose that 12 minutes was actually nine or ten (i.e. within the minimum, and that the ANPR cameras are not sychronised, and can sometimes lie about the timings by a couple of minutes). Any chance you can expose the skewed lie between the in/out camera clocks?

If not, then at POPLA stage, POPLA like it if your evidence includes proof of where you went instead, i.e. if you paid for parking 5 minutes later, down the road at x car park, that's ideal.

Not needed for first appeal, which is merely a POPLA code harvesting stage.

Did the PCN arrive by day 15 and does it mention the POFA in the middle on the back?

I do have a dash cam and also GPS tracker as well, so will look further into this.
The POFA is on the back and the PCN did arrive before day 15.

So I'm going to appeal this PCN but do I have to state my reasons to PE or just say I wish to appeal?

Agent_Gibbs

I've just noticed that on the PE appeal webpage is states very clearly that my allowed duration is 'zero' but on their paperwork sent to the driver its not there.

Below is the wording from the PE appeal page

Location Address
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Stay Duration
0 hours 12 minutes
Allowed Duration
0 hours 0 minutes
Status
Open