Appeal rejected for private charge (PPM)

SpeckledHen2312

UPDATE: Charge cancelled


Backstory - I am a trainee GP and attended a patient on an emergency house visit. I parked in a 'visitor short stay' bay (rather than a 'residents only' one) and came back to find I'd been ticketed.


Only signage says that parking there should display a visitor parking permit scratch card, but crucially DOES NOT SAY HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO GET HOLD OF ONE.


I was attending my patient for 25 minutes, obviously came out and found ticket on car. Wrote to the company on my NHS headed paper, explaining situation and that nowhere on the signage does it tell you how long you have to procure a permit, they have obviously rejected the appeal. However in their letter they state that you only have 15 minutes, but there is nothing on any of the signs in the area that say this.


I am absolutely fuming. I was attending on an emergency call out, and had they had clearly documented time limits then I would have looked for somewhere else since I know that an emergency call would take longer than that! (besides, in my mind, a visitor short stay in any reasonable time frame would be at least 30m to 1hr - especially because it takes ten minutes to walk to some of the flats!!!)


They've given me the option of taking it to an independent appeals board - if I take it there and cite the fact that there is no clearly documented time frame for getting hold of a visitor permit, is there any chance I will win? I'm really miffed (for want of a better word!), especially as this private company (PPM) has had absolutely no sympathy for the whole situation - I feel they wouldn't have ticketed an ambulance, but it's fine to do it for the emergency on-call? The thing that's worrying me is that the charge will go up from £60 to £100 if I lose the independent appeal, and right now I really cannot afford to take that hit, so it would need to be a good chance of winning to get me to appeal. What can I do to get this charge reversed?

waamo

Who exactly are PPM? Alternatively which "independent" appeal body do you appeal to POPLA or IAS?

SpeckledHen2312

The company is Parking and Property Management. I have been told that I can appeal to IAS.


One of my doctor colleagues has told me to try quoting the Emergency Service Workers (obstruction) act as it classes as an emergency visit if it prevents the deterioration of physical or mental health etc. Which I may also pull out of the bag if I need to, but I would rather get it overturned on the basis of common sense and decency!

Quentin

Read up on this in the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum

You will learn about the futility of appeals to ias!

(As well as the roles of common sense and decency not existing with ppcs!)

waamo

It won't hurt to appeal to the IAS in this case but don't expect it to be successful.

In saying that this may be one occasion where their 20% appeal allowance kicks in. It's the sort of case they know they wouldn't stand a chance of winning in court so setting a stall out early might just pay dividends.

Like I said though I wouldn't put money on it.

The_Deep

They are scum, a LA would almost certainly cancel, see MC2

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=julian+assange+arrested&&view=detail&mid=2949AC85E217DC3559982949AC85E217DC355998&&FORM=VRDGAR

Complain to your MP, they are well aware how these scammers operate and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

The thing that's worrying me is that the charge will go up from £60 to £100 if I lose the independent appeal, hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

So what, the only time you pay is when a Judge tells you to and, imo, no judge is likely to do that.

Coupon-mad

SpeckledHen2312 wrote: »

The company is Parking and Property Management. I have been told that I can appeal to IAS.

One of my doctor colleagues has told me to try quoting the Emergency Service Workers (obstruction) act as it classes as an emergency visit if it prevents the deterioration of physical or mental health etc. Which I may also pull out of the bag if I need to, but I would rather get it overturned on the basis of common sense and decency!

You will not get common sense and decency from the IAS, IMHO, based on the warped decisions they churn out. We stopped trying ages ago, as there is no fairness to be seen.

Think of the worst kangaroo court you can think of, made up of anonymous people and supplied by the same people who run the Trade Body, who are in turn, the same people who are/were Directors of Gladstones, the solicitor firm who start the claims for IPC firms.

Yep, a conflict of interests, extraordinaire:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/06/all-change-at-gladstones-and-ipc.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/09/gladstones-lies-catch-up-with-them.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/03/parking-and-property-management-ltd.html

That last one is about PPM. We beat Gladstones claims all the time here, 99% win rate.

No chance at appeal with any IPC firm, the entire thing is not 'independent' and even Parliament sussed that in 2018.

But we never tell people to pay these scam PCNs. Come back at court stage and don't try IAS, as you will lose and then you will feel despondent and on the back foot.

Be clear on this:

DO NOT appeal to the IAS.

Do not pay.

Do fight it properly in court when Gladstones start a doomed claim.

SpeckledHen2312

Thank you.


So far I have started constructing a defence if they bother to take me to court. Partly hinging around the Emergency Service Workers (Obstruction) Act of 2006, where section 2 makes it clear that obstructing or hindering an individual on behalf of the NHS, when responding to emergency circumstances is unacceptable. It goes on to say that such circumstances include a worsening of illness or injury as per section 1(4)(a)(iv) and provides protection to include those responding on behalf of an NHS Trust as per Section 1(5)(a) and the company were notified immediately (and with a sign on my visor which the pictures have suspiciously not captured) that I was a doctor on emergency call out. Act does not say that you have to be in a liveried vehicle.


Would hope that any reasonable judge would immediately side with the poor NHS worker on emergency call, instead of money-grabbing private company


Seriously though, I wouldn't put it past them to ticket an ambulance. Scum. Have also written to my local MP and the local paper for a cathartic moan.


That said I am going to investigate green lights and some battenburg decals for my car... :rotfl:

Coupon-mad

Try putting the above to the landowner. They can get this scam cancelled.

SpeckledHen2312

Thank you Coupon-Mad - after getting repeated rejections from PPM, despite proving to them that they were in contravention of the Equality Act 2010 schedule 2, I wrote a polite email to the landowner who is also the people who are in charge of the social housing on the site of which my patient was a tenant. Hugely sympathetic response from them, and less than 24hrs later charge revoked, with collaborative working between them and the management team to provide signage etc for on call staff to display in cars so as not to get ticketed. I think this counts as a result.

Coupon-mad

24hrs later charge revoked, with collaborative working between them and the management team to provide signage etc for on call staff to display in cars so as not to get ticketed. I think this counts as a result.

perfect! :T