Tribunal sort of won but no points - what's next?

Mumraaa

Hello! And thanks for any help! So the short story is :
Spent about a year on ESA contributions based on assessment rate. Then Feb 2018 did a medical I think with maximus company. To cut it short got 0 points and kicked off ESA of course and ended up on universal credit and now had my tribunal under a month ago and this was the result:

1. The appeal is allowed.
2. The decision made by the secretary of state on 20/02/2018 is set aside.
3. [Name] has limited capability for work. The matter is now remitted to the secretary of state to make a final decision upon entitlement to ESA.
4. This is because insufficient points were scored to meet the threshold for the work capability assessment, but regulation 29 of the ESA regulations 2008 applied.
5. No schedule 3 descriptor applied. Regulation 35 of the ESA regulations 2008 did not apply.

By reasons of generalised anxiety disorder and panic disorder, [name] is significantly limited. Nevertheless he does not score any points. However if he were fine capable of work this would result in a substantial risk to the mental health of the appellant.

So as you see kind of a win but I only just found out that they can add points in the tribunal and I'm a bit shocked that I still have 0 to say the least and I'm worried about it's impact going forward. Although I did have quiet a few problems namely:
I did completely mess up the initial medical I thought I was there to be positive and explain how much I had been doing to help my problems and discuss what there was to help get me back to work etc. . And I focused on pretty much only my best moments amongst other things ... Needless to say it backfired giving a warped view of my longer term situation and not a 'typical day' which I later saw in the report but do not remember hearing in the assessment. I have also been doing an extremely tailored eBay shop situation were I can stop if I get a nightmare period and can't function and use my family to get any things posted if I can't do it etc etc which I was doing as ESA's 'permitted work' but I now wonder if I should stop especially with universal credit not having that I think?

Next up was my benefits adviser from the citizens advice bureau who suddenly stopped contacting me about 1 month before the tribunal and reappeared the day after the deadline for additional evidence when I had already started doing my own case as such thinking he's not going to turn up :O ! It all ended with him sending his letter late with some evidence and using a few emails I had sent him when I thought we were meeting up to go through it all together so it was all very chaotic and without the full picture as such. I then started to write my own notes to go through on the day thinking I can fill them in on the day but by the time I got to the end of the tribunal I was in a mess tired panicking etc. And I had not read my notes properly and I had no idea what was what to be honest...I just muddled through. Thought I had totally lost and had a really bad few days then got the letter. My adviser went on holiday then told me a few days back his contract has ended so he can't help me so it's been very confusing and messy. He seemed good when he was around and a nice guy but that was pretty bad for me and I wonder if it affected my points situation.

My main problem is I was going for the support group and not mentioned in the letter is that my main mental health problems are social anxiety health anxiety and depression with chronic fatigue and a few other things. I have had these pretty much all my life and I have been through decades of therapy I'm in my 40s and I've pretty much got to the stage where I have to accept my situation and it's as good as it's going to get as such after getting to the suicidal stage / rock bottom. I have top qualifications training etc etc tried jobs from top down to the bottom and back again I literally can't find anything helpful in the work related group unless maybe they have a top level psychiatrist which may spot something new which I'm guessing it's a big no. And of course my worst anxieties are with social anxieties and so anything with people involved is going to make me worse of course and many other problems.

But again I've also moved to universal credit since and this tribunal was about the decision in Feb 2018 with the esa. So I thought I would get some kind of decision from the dwp within a few weeks but now I'm nearing the 1 month date from the tribunal
with no DWP decision (expecting the work group but of course this is for years ago ) and I have no idea if I need to despute anything or if it's worth it anyway. Or if I just need to move onto the universal credit situation or DWP decision when it finally comes and despute that. Etc etc... It's all taking a toll on my mental health of course as well so I'm feeling like I just want to give up and move on but I'm worried I may end up in a nightmare situation as well...

I'm in the process of getting a new representative for help but it will take a while as they are busy so any advice would be great as I'm so confused of course... And sorry it was a long post but this really is the short version and there's much more ! Thanks! Especially if you made it this far!

Alice_Holt

I'm not sure I understand what question(s) you are asking.
Can you please clarify in bullet points what information you want.

Broadly.
1) As you are now in receipt of UC you will stay on UC you cannot return to ESA.

2) The Tribunal allowed your ESA appeal - they overruled the DWP decision and found you not fit for work because any work would pose a significant risk to your health (Reg 29).
The DWP have to accept this decision - they cannot make a different decision.
Their only option to reverse this tribunal's decision is an appeal to an Upper Tribunal, on the basis that the tribunal made an error in law.
This is also an option you have if you think the tribunal made an error in law.

3) If you were receiving ESA before April 2017, you should let UC know as you are likely to eligible for an increased LCW UC rate.
Have you had a WCA whilst on UC?

After a year of CB ESA would you have been eligible for Income Based ESA?

Why are you trying to get a new rep?

calcotti

OP, if you have been found to have LCW due to regulation 29 it is irrelevant whether you scored any points or not.

Mumraaa

Thanks for your help... Broadly is good...Ah so I was thinking if I have 0 points after the tribunal it is still a weak position and will lead to work related activity and more likely fail any more assesments etc. . I'm new to ESA and these situations so I'm finding out stuff as I go... I've never been in any group so far as well.

I'm also unsure where I am with UC i was initially told to sign on with JSA which after two weeks was stopped as they said I shouldn't of moved to that and even months after that a JSA logo came up every time I logged in until I explained it to the technical team there were lots of technical difficulties partly due to the system being new and a bit glitchy which I guess your familiar with. Which lead me to think possibly my limited capability for work payments where invisible if they where there as I have no extra payments in my statement page when logged in but I'm pretty sure I'm getting more than before I was on universal credit. And to be honest as long as I have enough money im ok and I had no idea how the tribunal would effect all of this so I left it but I will check all this after I get the decision I guess.

I've not had any WCA since I started UC again I assumed the tribunal was best to do first. I guess I might be doing the UC WCA soon?

I've no idea if I would of gone on to another ESA at that point of UC wasn't rolled out in my area possibly not.

The new rep I guess was for the next round of problems I'm expecting after the decision... UC WCA fail then tribunal 2 maybe? Or if there's any other options I guess... I've just realised going into any of these things blind is not a good idea anymore. And you are helping this of course now.

But yes you have already answered much thanks for that. Possibly I can stop watching the letter box in my mind every day waiting for a harsh letter and the next struggle. For a bit at least .

calcotti

Because you have been found to have LCA but not LCWRA you are in the Work Related Activity Group.

You need to inform UC about the tribunal decision. They should accept this and modify your Claimant Commitment accordingly. They shouldn’t require you to have a new WCA - although they can review you at any time so may still do so.

Mumraaa

calcotti wrote: »

Because you have been found to have LCA but not LCWRA you are in the Work Related Activity Group.

You need to inform UC about the tribunal decision. They should accept this and modify your Claimant Commitment accordingly. They shouldn’t require you to have a new WCA - although they can review you at any time so may still do so.

Yes thanks so what I am saying is I'm confused I'm not in the support group due to the severity and type of the condition. I wonder if I failed to get it across to the tribunal. Without going into the finer details how would I try to get into the support group from here? I feel challenging the tribunal will possibly not change anything with its decision partly due to me messing up my first assessment making me sound better than I actually was. So I have to wait for the DWP to decide I'm in the work related group then challenge and I guess probably do another assessment maybe?

Thanks.

Alice_Holt

Mumraaa wrote: »

Yes thanks so what I am saying is I'm confused I'm not in the support group due to the severity and type of the condition. I wonder if I failed to get it across to the tribunal. Without going into the finer details how would I try to get into the support group from here? I feel challenging the tribunal will possibly not change anything with its decision partly due to me messing up my first assessment making me sound better than I actually was. So I have to wait for the DWP to decide I'm in the work related group then challenge and I guess probably do another assessment maybe?

Thanks.

When you have the next UC Work Capability Assessment (WCA) you need to show why the LCWRA (same as the SG in ESA) applies to you.
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors
https://wcainfo.net/issues/substantial-risk-lcwra

Mumraaa

Alice_Holt wrote: »

When you have the next UC Work Capability Assessment (WCA) you need to show why the LCWRA (same as the SG in ESA) applies to you.
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors
https://wcainfo.net/issues/substantial-risk-lcwra

Ok yes thanks I suppose I was just worried my month was almost up for disputing the tribunal and I might be missing something. I'm seeing things a bit more clearly now thanks I guess it's on to the next stage and forget that first assessment and go from there thanks!