LGCP (IPC) did not address late NTK issue

gingersnapz

Hello,

Sorry if there is an existing thread that addresses this issue but I've been unable to locate it.

I received a NTK from an IPC PCC. However, it arrived nearly 6 weeks after when it should have been issued.

I copy and pasted Coupon Mad's template along with the following paragraph in an email to LGCP:

[FONT=&quot]Furthermore: Your NTK is dated **** and the date of the “contravention” was the ****. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]Therefore: [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]1) This Notice to Keeper (NTK) is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) due to the dates and the wording used.

Under schedule 4, paragraph 4 of the POFA, an operator can only establish the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of a vehicle if certain conditions must be met as stated in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 & 12. LGCP have failed to fulfil the conditions which state that the keeper must be served with a compliant NTK in accordance with paragraph 9, which stipulates a mandatory timeline and wording:-

’’The notice must be given by— (a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.’’[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The applicable section here is (b) because the NTK was delivered by post. Furthermore, paragraph 9(5) states: ’’The relevant period…is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended’’.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I have now received the "Final Reminder".
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I have read that there is no point going with the IAS [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot](in any case, I haven't appealed to the IAS within the 21 days stitpulated time period)[/FONT]. So - is it the case that I just ignore the letters? I know that a late NTK is described as the Golden Ticket in BPA cases - but how does this work with IPC? In other threads it has said that many parking companies do not comply with POFA but if it's in law, then they have no case to stand on?
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Any clarification in terms of what to do next would be super helpful. I'm assuming it is to do nothing but I wanted to check that LGCP as an IPC member can't get round POFA.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Also - and I think that this is worth a mention. The parking attendant on the day was hostile and intimidating (totally unsolicited) - is this worth mentioning or should I direct it elsewhere? [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Thanks for any help received. [/FONT][/FONT]

KeithP

gingersnapz wrote: »

The reason for the initial overstay was that a hospital appointment overran (just in case this is relevant). It's a car park on the site of Queens Medical Center in Nottingham.

And what did the hospital have to say when you asked them to cancel the ticket?

Have you seen the NHS patient, visitor and staff car parking principles?

Particularly these bits:

Additional charges should only be imposed where reasonable and should be waived when overstaying is beyond the driver’s control (eg when treatment takes longer than planned, or when staff are required to work beyond their scheduled shift).

Contracted-out car parking

NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private contractors who run car parks on their behalf.

Complain to PALS at the hospital.

Coupon-mad

The parking attendant on the day was hostile and intimidating (totally unsolicited - he just started having a go at me when I returned to my car) - is this worth mentioning or should I direct it elsewhere?

No because you will blab who was driving, which throws away the entire argument about the NTK being late.

Was there a windscreen PCN issued by the git? If so, the NTK deadline wasn't 14 days, it was day 57 to reach you at your house (they still just missed that date...).

gingersnapz

Thanks both for your helpful replies.

I didn't approach the hospital because I had read elsewhere that LGCP hadn't even let off nurses for contraventions. However, having now read the parking principles I think I could be covered.

Nevertheless - the git (!) did not issue a windscreen PCN. So the NTK sent in February was the first notification of any kind.

What would be the best way forward now? Contact the hospital or ignore the letters considering that LGCP didn't comply with POFA? I'm worried that the appointment was too long ago for anyone to confirm that my appointment had over ran.

Thanks again for your help.

waamo

Contact the hospital and try and get them to cancel it. There is no point communicating further with LGCP anything else will either fall on deaf ears or give away the drivers identity.

Redx

POFA is not mandatory, so if they failed POFA then that isnt the end of the matter, many dont bother with POFA but still take people to court

the onus is on the PPC to prove they have the correct person in the dock , so they use any means possible to get that person to pay, even if they failed POFA, because they try to use other avenues to prove liability

so even if they have failed POFA , its not an automatic win for a defendant , because the PPC will try to adduce or infer that the person being taken to court has liability, in some cases they infer that the keeper and driver are one and the same person

as stated above, there is nothing further to do, because YOU are awaiting either an LoC and/or court papers from the CCBC in Northampton (MCOL), the interim period is the impasse period, where nobody budges (a bit like the dreaded Br***t)

court is decision time , in the meantime its all noise and bluster , meaning that for the moment you philibuster

The_Deep

The parking attendant on the day was hostile and intimidating (totally unsolicited - he just started having a go at me when I returned to my car) - is this worth mentioning or should I direct it elsewhere?

It is certainly worth mentioning o the CEO of the Trust, the Parking Weasel may have form.

Complain also to your MP, they are well aware of this scam and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

gingersnapz

Thanks again for your time and replies. On that note - how do I go about thanking posts?!

If the PPC ignores POFA, but it goes to court, how do they win? Have they won in cases like this before? Should I build a case in the meantime? Should I be worried?! Whats the worse that can happen?

gingersnapz

I've managed to thank posts now - I didn't have the option before. Thanks!

gingersnapz

I contacted PALS and they said that they were unable to help me because the carpark is not managed by the Trust. They were very nice in their email though.

KeithP

Never mind how nice they were, you now need to respond, reminding them of their responsibilities for their contractor.

I specifically mentioned in my earlier post this extract from the NHS patient, visitor and staff car parking principles:

Contracted-out car parking

NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private contractors who run car parks on their behalf.

Quote that to them.


Also ask them that if they still cannot help, will they please supply the name and email address of the person in the NHS Trust that this issue should be escalated to.