Penalty Charge Notices on Private Land

lewri

Hello here
I had a little search on this forum first but it seems like this issue isn't one easily found. If I'm wrong do point me to where some threads are!

As this is a matter of hot debate internally, and regarding a place I work, I'll try to explain the question I have in as much detail as possible without naming names.

Since the parking on private land regulations changed in 2012 preventing clamping of vehicles, the university I work in has contracted the city council to enforce parking policy across all car parks on campus as if they were public car parks. My issue is, what (if any) powers do the council have to enforce a Penalty Charge Notice on private land?

Given the wording the university used to back up this policy, it sounds like most (if not all) university car parks are private land. I haven't really found any legal information about this either (except that penalty charge notices are used on public highways/car parking). If anyone could provide some insight to this matter it would be helpful?

Thank you.

Redx

I suggest you ask this over on PEPIPOO fightback forums in their council section, because they specialise in council issues , whereas on here we help out in private parking issues, do not use hotmail for signup, try gmail or similar


this is why you founds nothing on here


as for POFA , it does not apply on council land and council car parks, but see what they say over there

The_Deep

Get your MP on board, they are totally on your side.

On 18th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

lewri

The_Deep wrote: »

Get your MP on board, they are totally on your side.

On 18th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.



Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Thanks for your reply. Though this isn't to do with private companies. Instead, the Council's Civil Enforcement Offices are being used to issue fines, not private companies.
Correct me though if you were referring to the council.

fisherjim

As above but I don't see how a council can impose penalty charge notices on private land and in any case surely a TRO is needed.


Unless the car parks are actually council owned and not private surely they can't do this.


High Wycombe council tried going the other way and installed private parking companies to manage their car parks with anpr.


They lost thousands, and were pulled up by the government and forced to re-instate the old scheme.


There is either more to this than meets the eye or it was announced on April 1

rachity

It sounds as if the land is governed by bye laws.


If so, contraventions could attract penalty charges. (As opposed to 'parking charges' on relevant private land)



You could check with the LA.

rachity

fisherjim wrote: »

As above but I don't see how a council can impose penalty charge notices on private land and in any case surely a TRO is needed.


Unless the car parks are actually council owned and not private surely they can't do this.


High Wycombe council tried going the other way and installed private parking companies to manage their car parks with anpr.


They lost thousands, and were pulled up by the government and forced to re-instate the old scheme.


There is either more to this than meets the eye or it was announced on April 1

They squandered well over £1million!

rachity

In a letter sent in 2014 – seen by the BFP – a Department for Transport minister warned councils against using private land parking schemes like ANPR instead of fixed penalty notices enforced under existing parking legislation.
In his letter, MP Robert Goodwill suggested the department would ask the DVLA to refuse to give out driver details to councils – leaving many private machines worthless.

https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/14383078.anpr-fiasco-bfp-investigation-reveals-ticket-dodging-could-be-rife-in-wycombe-district-council-car-parks/

twhitehousescat

this case seem to be the reverse , they are using council employees to issue tickets on what may be private land

are bylaws in , place , are they going the whole hog , are they offering appeals , to WHOM , are the counsil allowed to get info from dvla when this (may) be private land

the ownership of the land needs to be determined , before continuing

lewri

twhitehousescat wrote: »

this case seem to be the reverse , they are using council employees to issue tickets on what may be private land

are bylaws in , place , are they going the whole hog , are they offering appeals , to WHOM , are the counsil allowed to get info from dvla when this (may) be private land

the ownership of the land needs to be determined , before continuing

If I remember correctly this is quite a contentious issue. Some car parks may be leased off the council, but quite a number of them are privately owned. However, it's never been stated which is which. I'm not sure any kind of Freedom of Information request would provide answers though.

Edit: To address the other questions:
1. Not sure about the byelaws.
2. Appeals are done through the council website like a normal PCN on the street etc. Appeals are to the driver/registered keeper.
3. Council can obtain DVLA information.

fisherjim

I'm sure the car parks have to have a sign referencing the TRO and how to view it;


This is an example of a statement from Kingston Council but is fairly commonplace:


Pay and display car parks

Pay and display car parks are managed under a Traffic Management Order made under the Road Traffic Act 1984 (as amended). A copy of the relevant order can be made available for inspection, by request to Parking Services.