Bought Stolen Car in Good Faith - what options I have? Pls help

Takmon

Deneb wrote: »

Read the terms of the guarantee very carefully. There are also other conditions, such as having to check every VIN on the vehicle. How many prospective purchasers have researched how many locations that the VIN should be present on the vehicle they intend to buy, let alone being able to prove to the satisfaction of the guarantee that they did so! It also stipulates that the document reference on the V5C must be checked against the information held by HPI, and that any other features contained on the V5C must also be checked against the vehicle. So as well as make, model, colour, body type, this could also include the engine number etc.

How many people know where to find the engine number, and if they do a lot of vehicles nowdays require some dismantling of ancillary components or trim to actually get at it. Good luck with taking a photograph to prove to HPI that you checked it, sometimes I had to resort to a borescope.

When your spending thousands of pounds on a car i think it's worthwhile spending the time checking everything is correct. Checking that the details on the V5C match the car is a pretty basic check that everyone should carry out. The VIN numbers are designed to be checked so it's not difficult to look at each one and take a picture and then input this into the HPI website.

Here are the HPI guarantee terms and conditions:

HPI_Gurantee wrote:

To qualify for the HPI Guarantee, you must do the following before buying your vehicle:
you must ensure that the vehicle is accompanied by a full and current V5C (log book) from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, and provide us with the serial number and issue date from it;
you must check that all the vehicle information provided by us as part of the HPI Check matches the vehicle itself and the corresponding V5C (log book), and you must notify us immediately of any discrepancies so that we can investigate. This information includes, but is not limited to, the vehicle’s make, model and derivative, engine size, colour, transmission, fuel type and door plan;
you must check that the date of first registration in the UK of the vehicle we provide as part of the HPI Check matches the date on the corresponding V5C vehicle registration certificate (log book);
you must provide the VIN to us prior to purchasing the vehicle and check that all the VIN markings on the vehicle match each other and the corresponding V5C vehicle registration certificate (log book); and
you must obtain a written statement or receipt signed by the seller of the vehicle, containing details of the vehicle’s VRM and mileage, the date of purchase, the amount paid and the seller’s name and address.
If the vehicle is bought privately then you must purchase it from the keeper and at the address stated on the V5C vehicle registration certificate (log book). You must verify the identity of the seller against those on the V5C vehicle registration certificate (logbook).

All that seems pretty reasonable to me and then you have to pay through the banking system using a bank transfer for example.

If someone followed all those steps i would be willing to be good money they wouldn't lose out due to a cloned vehicle.

Every time someone posts on here who have lost out haven't made reasonable checks before handing over large sums of money.

Deneb

Takmon wrote: »

When your spending thousands of pounds on a car i think it's worthwhile spending the time checking everything is correct. Checking that the details on the V5C match the car is a pretty basic check that everyone should carry out. The VIN numbers are designed to be checked so it's not difficult to look at each one and take a picture and then input this into the HPI website.

But do you know where they are and can you get sufficient access to photograph them? They are not all in the same place on every vehicle, not even different models from the same manufacturer. Would you know how many places the VIN should be present on the vehicle you are looking at? Some vehicles it is only 2, most 3, some more. On some vehicles, at least one of the locations where the number appears is a location not designed to be easily checked. My point is that your average car buyer doesn't know this, or how to find out. Sometimes the seller doesn't either, because the false numbers are placed in locations where they shouldn't be, or there are more of them than there should be! A bit of a moot point anyway, because often the people who are taken in by this fraud are happy to accept a piece of paper or card stuck on the vehicle, as long as it has a number on it that matches what HPI says!


I agree with you though, when you're spending a lot of money it is worth checking that everything is correct. Some people see m more than happy to meet someone they've never met before in a car park or remote lay-by and hand over thousands of pounds in cash without a second thought!!!

custardy

tirfk wrote: »

Its 12reg Audi Q5 9grand
Insurance wants 11grand
Met him at v5c registered address.
Finalised deal after couple of days cash sale.
Hpi check came clear and v5c doc legit.
Apparently it was stolen few months ago.
Its cat X and its real market value is around £12

What was the T&Cs for the HPI service regarding car being stolen?

Jillcheesedoff

Deneb wrote: »

Having spent much of my career recovering clones from innocent purchasers and dealing with both the victims and HPI, I can say with experience that HPI will very rarely cover the purchaser of a clone unless they have complied with very specific conditions and can irrefutably prove as much. The standard response is that the purchaser of the HPI check carried it out on the identity of a different vehicle to the one that they actually bought, therefore the guarantee doesn't apply to that vehicle!

The guarantee relates to the accuracy of the data held by HPI in relation to the vehicle whose identity has been supplied by the customer. Unless the victim has purchased the vehicle from a seller who are also an innocent and unwitting party to the transaction, the seller will almost always engineer the circumstances of the sale in such a way that the guarantee conditions and any goodwill on the part of HPI will never be met.

They don't do that with the intention of preventing the purchaser from availing themselves of the guarantee, but it is a consequence of the situations that the sellers create to minimise their risk of getting caught, which the purchasers unwittingly walk into head first, blinded by the deal that appears to have been presented to them!

The most obvious stumbling block is that the guarantee will not cover any losses arising from a cloned vehicle where any payment or part payment such as a deposit is paid in cash or by any method other than through the banking system. I never came across a single offender who was willing to accept payment by a method through which they could be traced, and buyers invariably fall over themselves to pay cash as requested because of the apparent bargain that they don't want to miss. The prospective buyers who aren't happy to do that walk away and don't actually need the guarantee

we are not covered as it's cloned

Takmon

Jillcheesedoff wrote: »

we are not covered as it's cloned

You should have done a genuine HPI check and followed their conditions then you would have been covered for a cloned car.
The likely thing is that if you did follow their instructions you probably wouldn't have bought the car because if the seller knew it was dodgy they would have been spooked by your thoroughness.

Arklight

Takmon wrote: »

You should have done a genuine HPI check and followed their conditions then you would have been covered for a cloned car.
The likely thing is that if you did follow their instructions you probably wouldn't have bought the car because if the seller knew it was dodgy they would have been spooked by your thoroughness.

Which helps her how?

It doesn't, ergo, unhelpful.

Jillcheesedoff

We have had this happen to me and my husband very traumatic would be very interested to see your pictures of him to see if it's the same guy ? I would also be interested in talking to you about are ordeal

Takmon

Arklight wrote: »

Which helps her how?

It doesn't, ergo, unhelpful.

I've already explained this too you in #29; this is a public forum so when people see a risky financial situation they will be interested in how to avoid that situation themselves. Plus the person i replied to seemed to think they carried out all the required checks so knowing what they could have done will prevent them doing it in the future.

If you do something and it goes wrong and you don't know why then if nobody helps you see your mistakes you will end up making the same mistake again.

Plus my posts are infinitely more helpful than your two contributions to this thread :rotfl:

Arklight

Takmon wrote: »

I've already explained this too you in #29; this is a public forum so when people see a risky financial situation they will be interested in how to avoid that situation themselves. Plus the person i replied to seemed to think they carried out all the required checks so knowing what they could have done will prevent them doing it in the future.

If you do something and it goes wrong and you don't know why then if nobody helps you see your mistakes you will end up making the same mistake again.

Plus my posts are infinitely more helpful than your two contributions to this thread :rotfl:

This, my friend, is a matter of perspective.

Good day.

D_hickles

Hi,

What was the outcome of this? We have just had a very similar situation. The car we purchased a couple of weeks ago was a stolen car that had been cloned to look like another car identical. We did all the correct checks and everything seemed to tally up, I even rang the DVLA to confirm the details were correct when I couldn’t register as a new keeper of the car online and they confirmed it was all legitimate and that I had been given an old logbook so would need to apply for a new one. It wasn’t until I went into the post office to tax it and fill out an application for a new log book that they couldn’t find the reference numbers and it turned out the v5 was fake, we ran a diagnostic on the ECU and it came back with a completely different VIN number to what was on the car and said fake log book. Police came and recovered it, reported it to Barclays as we did a bank transfer and they’ve frozen the sellers account. However 2 weeks on and I haven’t been able to get any updates on if there’s a chance we will get the car or money back - policeman seemed to think as the original owner had been paid out that we may be offered the car back at a low price by the insurance company..