Challenging a Northern Rail Fixed Penalty Notice.

tablechair

Hello all,

Around a month and a half ago I accidentally bought a day return instead of an open return on the train from Manchester to my home town. Whilst I obviously can't remember whether or not I asked the conductor for an "open return" or just a "return," he certainly didn't ask for clarification and unbeknown to me I ended up with a day return. Around a week later, after the return leg of the journey, I was stopped at the security gates in Manchester because my lapsed ticket didn't open the barrier.

I was sent to the "authorised member of staff" who noted down my version of events and said I'd receive a letter and an email in the next few weeks telling me Northern Rail's next steps. Initially, no such message arrived and I presumed that they weren't bothering to chase it up, then maybe a month after the initial incident I received a FIXED PENALTY NOTICE, saying I'd have to pay a £102 fine (£90 fixed plus the £12 fare). The letter says that I travelled without "paying the full fare and with the intent of avoiding that fare" which seems unfair to me as my actions were clearly unintentional - if it had been an attempted scam it would have been one with a zero percent chance of success!

Things are further complicated by the fact that I only saw the letter today. I told the man who filed the complaint that I didn't actually have a UK address at the time (this was true) and the letter, which is dated the 8th of March got sent to my friend's house and only today made its way to me. I haven't yet received any email.

So, a few questions:

- Seeing as mine was so obviously an honest mistake, is there any possibility I could successfully appeal the slightly excessive fine? (Obviously I'm more than happy to pay the couple of quid difference between the cost of the two tickets.)

- How do I actually initiate the appeal proceedings? Both the letter and the Northern Rail website are pretty light on details in this regard.

Any advice or information would be much appreciated.

KeithP

The best advice for you is probably to re-post the above here:

www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152

tablechair

Thanks, will do.

agrinnall

While I'm sure you're telling the truth about what happened there is nothing at all "obvious" about it, plenty of people take chances with not paying the correct fare.

Manxman_in_exile

Having been detained at a barrier myself my advice to people is always check and double-check that you've actually received the ticket you were trying to buy.


In my case I had to purchase another ticket but my employer wassubsequently able to confirm that the TOC had issued an invalid ticket - they'd got the date wrong and I hadn't checked it. Ended up with two complimentary first class tickets to London plus two breakfasts (in the days when an Anglian breakfast was something to enjoy!).

tablechair

@agrinnall I think given the circumstances it'd be pretty hard for anybody to think I was intentionally trying to defraud Northern Rail. Purposefully buying the wrong ticket and then hoping to get through the ticket barrier/conductor without being caught is too harebrained a scheme for even the most optimistic jibber.

@Manxman. Yes you're right, lesson learned.

Anyway I decided to just pay the fine. Thanks for the replies everybody.

agrinnall

tablechair wrote: »

Purposefully buying the wrong ticket and then hoping to get through the ticket barrier/conductor without being caught is too harebrained a scheme for even the most optimistic jibber.

Pretty much every station that I've passed through that has barriers has them open with no ticket checks in place on some occasions.

tablechair

Yes but in that case why would you buy a cheaper ticket and not just go with no ticket?

stragglebod

To play the 'oh sorry I thought I had the right ticket' card. Your problem is that - assuming it was a genuine mistake - it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference between you and a fare dodger.

I reckon you were probably right to pay the settlement - if you'd rejected it they would probably have gone to prosecution, and since you didn't actually have a valid ticket it'd be difficult to see how you'd avoid being found guilty. Which would have cost a lot more than £90.

tablechair

But no fare dodger would do what I did and try to go through the barriers, where the best case scenario would involve a 30 minute discussion with an official and then a fine of at least the difference between the two tickets.

I just don't see any scenario in which buying a wrong but cheaper ticket would be better than a) buying the right ticket or b) buying no ticket.

giraffe69

I don't think it matters. You broke the rules, you didn't have a valid ticket so there is a penalty even given it wasn't your intent to defraud them.