New build – developer refusing to replace substandard kitchen hob

Jumblebumble

Hasbeen wrote: »

Sorry. Not necessarily. If hob like most small ones these days is rated at 13amps then a fixed 13A fused connection or even plugged in using the hobs 13a plug into a handy socket will suffice.

Its only the higher rated hobs that require a 32a supply back to the consumer unit.

If 13a then new cable, connections etc required for more powerful hobs.

Some sparkys would run a 6mm cable for any future use/upgrades and step down to 13amp for the smaller hob? but developers want all cheap.

So op needs to get professional advice on existing setup.

As a start perhaps the OP could go to their consumer unit and see if there is a seperate MCB marked kitchen ( turn off and see if it cuts hob out ) and tell us what rating it has if it exists

Some Bosch hobs have
Power management options for 16A, 13A or 10A connection
this also should be checked if your hob has similar options

ToasterScheme

Jumblebumble wrote: »

As a start perhaps the OP could go to their consumer unit and see if there is a seperate MCB marked kitchen ( turn off and see if it cuts hob out ) and tell us what rating it has if it exists

Some Bosch hobs have
Power management options for 16A, 13A or 10A connection
this also should be checked if your hob has similar options

Might be easier to just look underneath the hob and follow the wire. Either to a 13A plug (and you're stuck!) or a hard-wired outlet unit with more capacity (and you have options).

There could well be an MCB marked "kitchen" that supplies an oven. [Less likely unless its a double, most singles are 13A]


I know the adjustable hobs you mean. But you can't just turn them up if they are wired to a 13A plug - apart from being unsafe that would just blow the plug-top fuse eventually [if not every day!]


Others have suggested changing for a conventional (non-induction) hob - that would make the situation worse since they use loads more power.

voxyn

Thanks everyone! The replies so far have been very very useful. I'm glad at last to get some experienced thoughts on this. Here are a few responses to questions.

What's the spec / Were buyers given an option?

All properties (for context, about 34 flats) was sold without any options for customisation or different packages. All kitchens fitted the same, according to developer's choices.

No formal specification given as to the hob itself, except that (a) it would be an induction hob, and (b) Caple would be the manufacturer.

Upgrade it myself?

This is indeed an option. The developer has been very stingy here (no surprise!), so it's a bit frustrating, but spending the cash myself is a possibility. However, the expense might be more than just the hob unit price. More info below...

Hob power supply

Shortly after moving in, I had the building's electrical contractor in to do some unrelated private work, and I had a conversation with one of their electricians about the hobs. His understanding is that replacing the hob itself would not be enough – he was under the belief that additional electrical supply (!!) would need to be fitted.

Based on people's replies here, I just double-checked myself, and yes the hob is being supplied by a single standard 13-amp three-pronged UK plug socket.

Given this, it would mean a new cable from the mains unit to the kitchen, routed through one or two walls. Potentially a lot of disruption, and redecorating needed afterwards. The sparky guesstimated the work would be £1000+, including the cost of re-decorating, not including the hob cost.

A different contractor for the site suggested he thinks it's possible to get a 13-amp unit (compatible with what I have now) that can supply more power – but I'm not an expert here. And from the discussion in this thread, this is probably true, and I'm out of luck .

Current model and fitting

For those that have asked:

Make: Caple
Model: C840i
Supply voltage: 220-240V~ 50/60Hz
Installed electric power: 3000W
3kW Rated Load. 13A Fuse Rating.

Neighbours

I have heard second-hand that a particular flat has had their hob upgraded (and presumably the power supply re-fitted?!). If true it's a little irritating that the developer is being selected. This is possibly something I can use in my efforts with the developer – although before that I should due my due dil and confirm/check the circumstances of the other upgrade.

In general there are lots of owners who have the hob to be frustrating. At least half a dozen among the people I've talked to. Most people at first thought the hob was broken. Then asked the developer and discovered it's working at intended.

G_M

No formal specification given as to the hob itself, except that (a) it would be an induction hob, and (b) Caple would be the manufacturer.

Unless you had followed this up initially and pinned the developer down via contract to a specific (higher spec) Caple, you have no real legal leg to stand on.....



So your options are:

* keep badgering the developer to upgrade the wiring and hob. Don't hold your breath! Getting together with other owners might help - or make things worse as it would mean giving way would involve upgrading multiple properties.....


* Shop around for competitive quotes from independant sparkies. Find one who will dominimum damage, then plan to re-paint yourself. I had a ull re-wire and my sparkie was great. He chased wiring into walls and re-plasteredleaving me to paint. Yes, you can just see where he's been - it's an old house so I don't care - in a new build and if you are fastidious, you might want a professional job done. More cost - your choice


* upgrade hob if possible using existing wiring. But I'm not convinced the improvement will satisfy you.......

Slithery

voxyn wrote: »

A different contractor for the site suggested he thinks it's possible to get a 13-amp unit (compatible with what I have now) that can supply more power

He's talking rubbish. You can't safely pull more then 3kW from a 13A socket no matter what you plug into it.

W = V x A
W = 240 x 13
W = 3120

I know that this isn't strictly the correct calculation before any sparkies pull me up over it, but it's a good rough estimate.

hb2

G_M wrote: »

then plan to re-paint yourself.

Surely it would be more useful to re-paint the wall??

Rodders53

OK That model hob is not especially cheap https://www.appliancecity.co.uk/cooking/hobs/induction-hobs/caple-c840i-59cm-touch-control-frameless-induction-hob-13-amp/ and has:
4 induction cooking zones:
2 x Ø 180mm, 1.50kW 2 x Ø 180mm, 2.00kW 9 power levels

Now, my small rings are 1.4kW Ø 145mm and boil 160 mm pans really quickly on 9 - but that does depend on the induction pans used. Some are significantly faster than others (depends on base flatness - dimples and maker engravings are bad - and its internal construction).

Trying to use all rings on full at same time will lead to all being 'limited' to lower levels to total under the max 3000 W. Use one or two on full, then reduce to simmer etc.,. to use a third ring.

So a new hob plus major rewiring upheaval costs. Is it worth it?

Photo of consumer unit labelling could still help? as might pics of the isolating switches by the cooker and hob (with added labels of what does what if they aren't marked).

Rodders53

Slithery wrote: »

He's talking rubbish. You can't pull more then 3kW from a 13A socket no matter what you plug into it.

Actually a 13A fuse will happily run at lot more than 13A for quite a time. But that will cause overheating of plug and socket and be quite dangerous to deliberately do.

https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/fuse-operation-characteristics.php

Slithery

Rodders53 wrote: »

Actually a 13A fuse will happily run at lot more than 13A for quite a time. But that will cause overheating of plug and socket and be quite dangerous to deliberately do.

https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/fuse-operation-characteristics.php

Correct. I missed the word 'safely' out of my post. Fixed.

AdrianC

Rodders53 wrote: »

OK That model hob is not especially cheap https://www.appliancecity.co.uk/cooking/hobs/induction-hobs/caple-c840i-59cm-touch-control-frameless-induction-hob-13-amp/ and has:
4 induction cooking zones:
2 x Ø 180mm, 1.50kW 2 x Ø 180mm, 2.00kW 9 power levels

So there y'go. Absolute maximum the hob COULD deliver if all four were on flat-out is 2 x 2 + 2 x 1.5 = 7kW. That's a 32A supply. And that's why it's capped to 3kW for a 13A supply.