SIP PCN/ Vans

parking_man_111

Any help is gratefully received with this one!

Cant really find anything relating to my situation (after I think I’ve admitted I’m the driver)

I hired a van on Jan 1st

Parked a van in Manchester in an SIP car park from 1/1/19 to 2/1/20 12 30 am. paid for a ticket for 24h parking.

Got back to van, didn’t see any PCN, and just drove away.

Received an email from the van hirer on 13/2/19 stating they had received a traffic violation notice.

All I received was the letter from the van hirer. Nothing from SIP.

I emailed SIP with the PCN number saying I paid and had the ticked, which I scanned and sent a copy also, and didn’t see a PCN on the window.

No response to email

13/3/19 received a ‘payment overdue’ letter from SIP.

22/3/19 Responded in writing saying that I had paid the fee, sent a copy of the ticket, and that someone had removed the ticket or it had blown away, and requested they cancel the PCN. Also sent a copy of the email.

27/03/19 response saying it was an invalid ticket displayed. I paid the day rate for a car, not a van.
‘our signage clearly stated that the tariff differs for the parking of vans’

I’ve read a few threads on this site saying that you shouldn’t admit to being the driver when you have a hire van, And in my first email and letter I have said ‘I’ have parked, and ‘I’ have paid. Assuming this is admitting I was the driver.

Is there anyway to get out of this? Its not gone from £35, to £60 , to £115. I didn’t get the chance to even pay the £35 fee.
I have never seen anywhere charge more for a van in an open ground floor car park!

Redx

SIP is an IPC member so no easy get out, so stop looking for one

read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, where it tells you all about IPC members , plus post #4 where it talks about ignoring debt letters

come back to this thread if you get an LoC and/or an MCOL N1 form within 6 years


there are threads on similar issues on here over the last couple of years, especially SIP car parks. their aim is to allow drivers to make a mistake and then harass them for greater profits

twhitehousescat

goto or get someone to goto and read and photograph the machine where it states cost

Umkomaas

You need to get photos of the signage in the car park, taken in the light conditions that prevailed at the time of the parking event. If in the hours of darkness, take photos without flash to show any poor illumination.

You also need good quality close ups so the terms are clear to read, as they form the purported contract between the driver and the parking company.

Coupon-mad

Is there anyway to get out of this?

Of course. As others have said, get photos in a similar light, and sit tight, and come back here to defend it when they try a claim.

We win 99% of them. This is what the NEWBIES thread deals with in the 2nd post.

parking_man_111

So im going to sent them this (taken form another thread on here and amended slightly. )

Should I also make reference to the fact that i was not able to pay the £35 reduced fee even if i wanted to, because it went to the hire company rather than me, and then i got the £115 demand because it went over the number of days when I receive it?


************************************

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: PCN No.


I challenge this 'PCN' as lessee of the car and subsequently request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself at the address listed below:

address

I am the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) now it is proven that in this instance, the registered keeper is not the "keeper" (as defined under POFA), Civil Enforcement has no reason to contact Enterprise again regarding this PCN.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unreadable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers. (Pictures attached)

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park, and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to charge such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.!

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales.

Yours faithfully,

*******************************************

My other question is- because I live 3h away from the car park, I can't easily go to take pics of the signage, but luckily, on google maps you can get close to all the signage and quite clear. Is it better for me to drive all the way there to take a pic or will the google pics be acceptable?

Coupon-mad

Google pics are fine.

Don't add ANYTHING to the template. Be aware it will not get the PCN cancelled and is not intended to.

The sum demanded was not a 'fee' (nor a fine) and only stupid, 'more money than sense', or naive or elderly/not internet savvy 'victim' people would have paid it at £35.

Nor is it £115 - they make it up - and the true sum in play in any small claim would only be the PCN of £60 as a parking firm can't add costs to that, as if they've made a loss. They will try, though.

parking_man_111

ok- had a responce!

sent me a copy of all the photos of the van with the ticket on the window/ tariff signage etc.

"furthermore, please also know the dates for action will be taken from the original rejection letter date, and not the one on this latter. "
"please be aware that no further direct correspondence is required or will be entered into."
yours sincerely...


Should I be expecting a court summons next?

Coupon-mad

You will never get a summons. It's not a criminal case!

SIP use Gladstones to issue their claims, so read any Gladstones threads while you wait, to learn how to win.